Dragons' Den Didn't Save Us. Here's What Actually Did.

This episode is one of those conversations that stays with you.

I sat down with Alex, the co-founder of Nini Organics, to talk about what it actually looks like to build a brand when you’re not backed by huge budgets, big teams, or an easy path.

Because from the outside, it’s easy to look at a brand and assume it all just… worked.

But this conversation tells a very different story.

We talk about what it feels like to be building something meaningful while going up against companies with significantly more money, more resources, and more reach. The pressure that comes with that. The moments where it feels like you’re constantly fighting just to stay in the game.

At the same time, we go deeper than just business.

Alex opens up about his upbringing, the experiences that shaped him, and how those early chapters have influenced the way he builds today. There’s a real honesty in this episode about how your past doesn’t just stay in the past. It shows up in your decisions, your fears, and the way you handle growth.

One of the most powerful parts of this conversation is around fear, not just fear of failure, but fear of things actually working.

Because what happens when your dreams start to come true? Are you ready for it, and more importantly, can you handle it?

This episode is a reminder that building a business isn’t just about strategy or marketing. It’s about navigating pressure, identity, and the reality of figuring things out as you go.

If you’re in the messy middle right now, feeling like you’re pushing uphill or questioning whether it’s all worth it, this conversation will make you feel a lot less alone.

And hopefully, remind you why you started in the first place.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you follow Perls of Wisdom, so you never miss a conversation about what it really takes to build a business.

This podcast is all about the messy middle. The part nobody talks about. The lessons, mistakes, and breakthroughs that happen while you are still figuring it out.

If this episode helped you, I would love it if you could share it with a founder friend or tag me on social media so I can see you are listening.

You can find me here:
 Instagram: @itsisobelperl
LinkedIn: Isobel Perl
YouTube: Isobel Perl
Website: perlsinbusiness.com

If there is a founder you would love me to interview, or a topic you want covered, send me a message. I read more than you would think.

And remember:

You do not need to feel ready; you just need to decide to start.

Love Isobel x

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

We are fighting and it's hard to fight against a lot of money.

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:04

I don't want anyone to go through what I went through as a kid. But the biggest fear we have is our dreams coming true because how are we going to handle it?

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Welcome to Pearls of Wisdom, the podcast where we talk all about the messy middle of starting a business. And today I have on Alex, the founder of Nini Organics. I cannot wait for you to hear this episode. There was so much tea spilt that I feel like we might have to censor some moments. But I feel like there are some incredible moments where we learn all about Alex's journey, the colourful life that he's lived, and the journey he's taken to get to where he is today. So I cannot wait for you to listen to this episode. And as always, don't forget to follow the journey, like and subscribe, and comment below any questions that you have. And also do let me know if you have any other founders that you want me to interview because I have a sneaky feeling there's gonna be a season two.

Welcome + chaotic check-in

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Thank you so much for being here. Thank you. I am buzzing for this conversation. I feel like there's a lot to a lot to delve into. But before we do, I have a question for you. What's the most chaotic thing that's happened to you this week? And I know it's only Wednesday, so we can go back to last week as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

God, this week or slash last week, the most chaotic thing. Um okay, well, I mean it's it's it's not that chaotic, but it's chaotic for me, is we ran out of stock of our most popular product, and that's the most annoying thing in the whole world, especially when sales need to be sailing or whatever. I was like, Nicole, how could we be out of stock? Anyway, the bottles when we went to go reorder them were also out of stock. So it was very chaotic. We were trying to find different manufacturers that could do the exact same bottle, but we couldn't. And then randomly, Nicole checked to see if it was back in stock and it was. So we managed to buy some, but we're gonna be out of stock with this product for about a couple of weeks. Oh my god, yeah. No, that was chaotic, business-wise. Life-wise, I don't have any chaos. That's good.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

No, we love a chaotic-free life. Yeah, here for it.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

I keep it very ritualistic so it keeps my chaos levels down.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

As you should, as you

What is Nini Organics?

SPEAKER_01 2:26

should. So, for anyone that doesn't know about Nini Organics, what is it? Can you give me the elevator pitch?

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Yes, okay, so Nini Organics stands for Natural Ingredients, Nature's Intention. It's mine and my sister's company. We founded it in 2017. Uh, it's a natural, organic, next generation beauty brand that features heavily on biotech actives who are results driven. I just wanted to create the best version of elevated natural skincare possible.

SPEAKER_03 2:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

So that's what I did. Um, I've been in the industry for decades, yeah. Working for some of the biggest brands in the world. Um, and then when I discovered natural beauty, it all just made sense to me in the early 2000s, and I just haven't looked back since.

Origin story: acting, acne & finding beauty

SPEAKER_01 3:04

And what was the kind of catalyst into starting your own brand? Was there a moment where you were like, Yeah, I need to do this?

SPEAKER_00 3:10

Well, I had acne when I was 15 slash 16, but I was pursuing my career as an actor. So from that journey, you have no control over your destiny in the acting world unless you're a Nepo baby, do you know what I mean? So I was just in real two minds about pushing that career. And then I got acne, and I was like, no casting director is gonna take me seriously. I'm not gonna get any jobs. Do we know of any person that has acne on the screen? No, so and really back then. Yeah, back then, this was early, early, early 2000s. So I was like, okay, it's just I will continue going, I'll continue pushing, but I think it's gonna, I'm gonna hit a dead end at some point. And then it was like a beacon of joy came into my life of skincare through my mum. Like, she really liked her Romotherapy parties, when I was young, I really like to go and join in and blah blah blah. And the bathroom was like my safe space, and then I just discovered beauty from that. So I had two loves, acting and beauty. And then I think I just merged them together because I'm very much the face of the brand in the festivities. Yeah, so I'm like acting out my my dream, but I'm in control of it.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

Yeah, incredible. Yeah, exactly. I love that. I didn't know you were an actor in a past life, well, and present life as well.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

Yeah, I guess so. Every day's an act.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Well, yeah, it is, it's very true.

Formulating without a chemistry degree

SPEAKER_01 4:23

And so you are the formulator, you're the creator, the formulator. I mean, you still do it all yourself, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Yes. Well, I'm so I formulate, it's all my formulations. We've never white labeled anything, but I work with a co-formulator who has decades of experience on our water-based formulas. So it's a it's a collaboration, um, but all of the anhydrous products are completely made by myself and my sister in our lab in Watford. And then the water-based are made in Cornwall. Nice. But everything's made small batch, fresh, always and forever. And we're very diligent with our ingredient sourcing and all that good stuff. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

Back then, when you started out, because I felt the same way in terms of I formulated everything myself as well, and I felt the pressure to be like, is anyone gonna take me seriously? Because I'm literally mixing this in my parents' kitchen. Like, did you ever have that thought process of people aren't gonna trust me because I'm not a chemist? Or did you ever feel like that?

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Or no, I I didn't. I mean, I think everyone always has imposter, like it's just natural within us. But I didn't simply because I follow a lot of American brands and American green beauty brands are very much homegrown. Yeah, um, and obviously, like I think the misconception with growing so like growing, making something at home and in a kitchen, you still have to have it tested. Yeah, it still has to legally be able to sell on the market, you can't just make it and sell it. Yeah, so like when I was going through, I done the formulation course, and when I was going through all that and looking at all the legalities, I knew that it would be fine. Um, but I just had so much faith that if those people could do it, then I could do it because I had so much passion and drive behind it.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

So yeah, I think it's when I'm like more in the presence of people that have been in industry for many years and are like, you know, chemists, like proper chemist chemists. Like I'm not a proper chemist. Yeah. I've done a natural organic formulation course. Um, so I don't have a PhD. So when I speak to them and they're like, I'll that girl, what are you saying?

SPEAKER_01 6:17

Yeah, like hello.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

I actually just mix a few oils together, like hello. But yeah, so when it's got really getting into the nitty-gritty of um science behind the formulation, sometimes it can go over my head.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

But I really have dived into it now, so I'm like, And I think it's important as well to like see if you don't see it online, you don't realize that that can be actually like a possibility. And I feel like what's nice about like you and being like such a founder-led brand is that you're almost like carving the way or paving the way for future generations to be like, well, Alex has done it, so like I can do it too. And it's without seeing that, because I felt the same way at the start. I was like, I don't know any brands that started from that from their kitchen, but then when you start researching it, you're like, oh wow, like so many actually did. And not everyone has you know a huge amount of money behind them to do it, to do it in a way that people would think is the proper way, but there's many ways of like going into it.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

I think it's all down to authenticity as well. Like if you're you could be

Founder-led vs funder-led brands

SPEAKER_00 7:15

uh one of my absolute favourite people in the Hunter World, a melderbook, she said this um to me recently. She said, You're either founder-led or funder-led. So you're funded or you're founded. Yeah, and you know, we're founder bands, like we that's what's led us to where we are today. Um, with the fund, it comes with so much more challenges. At least we've been able to really enjoy the ride. And we've gone on that roller coaster together, and we've seen it, we've experienced it. And I think there's so much heart and love and authenticity into that, and that obviously explodes into the customers as well, and that's why we've got such loyalty with our customer base.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

No, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

So, yeah, I just you know, I think it's down to what the customers want and your passion if it comes through. Yeah, people buy from people, yeah, and you can also see past you know those in certain brands. You can see that it's obviously got millions backed by it. It may look good, it's probably got incredible um uh formulates behind the scenes and whatnot. But like, where's the money going to? What am I paying into? Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 8:16

And especially nowadays, people are a lot more conscious of like definitely for me since I started Pearl. I'm always like, well, who's the founder of this brand? Like, I'm always the one going on to the about me section in the website, and I'm looking and I'm like delving into it, and I think maybe consumer habits are changing more now, where fund-led brands which don't have face forward founders aren't, you know, exactly aren't as uh what's the word wanted perhaps as sort of us founder-led brands. And so being a founder-led brand, was that always part of the plan? Or did it did you fall into it? I guess being an actor is just natural to you, but I've I've thought about this recently and I was like, what what what would I have done differently if I would start the brand?

SPEAKER_00 8:58

And I don't think I would have done anything differently.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

No, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

I think it is that was the path that was literally set out for us. Like it was meant to be that way. It was meant to launch in farmers' markets. You know, we've been going for eight years. We launched in 2017, so it was meant to launch that way. Um and obviously it was very scrappy. We had 2,000 pounds to launch this company, so we did it in such a way that I feel super proud of. And I wouldn't change it for the world.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

Yeah, no, I yeah, I love that. I I I feel like there's like everything happens for a reason. My favorite saying literally, I think. I've got two favourite sayings, and that's one of them. Yeah, because it is, and like I feel like if if it happened in a different way, it just wouldn't it wouldn't, it would be a completely different outcome. It's like the butterfly effect, right? That like if if we'd done something slightly different at the start, we wouldn't be here where we are today. We'd be somewhere completely different. So I think it's like it's definitely what keeps me on the straight and narrow in that I'm like everything, I'm doing everything in the right way, and like, yeah, I think it's you can't look back and be like, I wish I'd changed that. The only thing you can think of it, the only thing you can think is I've learned that, and if I do it again, I'll do it maybe a bit differently. Um so taking, yeah, it is exactly taking it back to the start. What what in the journey has been one of the most unglamorous parts?

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Um, I think it's just expectations, to be honest. Like I think when you are going for eight years, you you may expect a certain level of um I don't know, customers, a certain level of exposure, a certain level of whatever it may be, like where you may be in your journey. So I think like I was like thrown a little bit by how hard it actually is having a business, an artisan business.

SPEAKER_03 10:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Um, when the landscape has changed so much these days that we are fighting and it's hard to fight against a lot of money. Yeah. So I think, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

No, I get that.

SPEAKER_00 10:57

What was the question?

SPEAKER_01 11:01

What's the most unglamorous part? Oh, unglamorous, okay. Okay, I can also sorry. But I like that answer though. That's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Also, another very unglamorous thing is that what I think people don't realise is that when it's founder-led, the founders are actually doing a lot of the heavy lifting, a lot of the legwork. So, like we had to move the studio from Colchester to Watford, and the what the studio we moved into wasn't ready yet. But we had to move all of our stuff from our old studio into the new studio whilst this building work was still going on, and we were lugging boxes, we were doing things that you just like heavy lifting, yeah, you know, stuff that you think the Kardashians have never done this in their life, you know? But yet they'll get praise and they'll be on the front magazine saying they've made a billion pounds on their company. It's like, well, what about us? We are literally lifting these boxes upstairs that we should not be doing to make sure that we have the stock for our amazing customers.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

I just don't think I don't think we scream enough about that or people know enough about it, maybe because it is literally the unglamorous thing. Some things that you might want to see on Instagram, and maybe you will put it on an Instagram or TikTok, whatever it may be, but you might glamorize it a little bit, you know, behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

Yeah, no, it's it's so right. People definitely don't actually comprehend what goes in behind it. But I think because it's these fund-led companies, and you see just you just assume big factories, like but even if you think of it in that level, there's people in the factory that are doing it all for you. So and it's people I just think we're in this society of Amazon order comes tomorrow. You don't even think about anything that goes on behind the scenes to like create that product, to ship it to you. And then when you are the the one behind the brand that is doing everything, in your case, which you and your sister are doing a lot of it, it's people don't realise that that's that's what you actually have to do. You have to make it, you have to bottle it, you have to blend it, you have to package it. I mean, I saw a video the other day of your sister like barcoding, like, or like putting like the expiry dates on every single Wait, can we just for that for a moment, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:06

It's called Sneed. Any small business out there that may be listening that likes that has to batch their products, Snead. Get yourself a Snead. We used to handwrite them and we used to put labels, stickers at the bottom of the jars, and I was like, oh my god, call, I can't do this anymore. And then I just had this epiphany, and I was like, surely there's like a labelling gun that we can use that's digital.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

I Googled it, and the first thing that came up was Sneed, and I was like, we have been going for about six years and we've never used a Snead. What have we been doing? Yeah. The best thing in the whole time. I love that, yeah, because there's machines that can do it, but the Sneed was perfect.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

And especially when you're like, so at our factory, for example, where where we have some things, they just laser it on at the end of the production. But obviously, like we're not factories, we don't we don't have we don't have all this money for all this equipment. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

Well, my friend actually did have one of those um belts that your products go long and it lasered it on, right? And she got rid of it because it was so annoying. So she now uses the Sneed.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

It's all about the Snead. Sneed, if you want to sponsor us, let us know.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

Yes, please Sneed.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Um, okay, so I know recently you've underdone a or undergone a rebrand. What what was the reasoning behind that? I know you've got like plans to expand into like high-end retail. Was there was there a lot of strategy that went behind that?

SPEAKER_00 14:22

No, we're very scrappy. I love that. Very, very scrappy. We like we knew that we had to elevate our look of the brand because the formulas are elevated and our price point is quite rich as well. Um, I never like to say expensive because I don't believe in expensive things. I believe I believe that you get what you pay for. So another one of my favourite sayings, you get what you pay for.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

So, me and Nicole, once again, we've done everything ourselves, and finally we had a bit of money where we could go to a designer and be like, look, can you help us, you know, put our vision, take what's out of my brain and put it onto a bottle. And we did that with Nini, and I really wanted to colour the bottles because the products were the colour of the bottles anyway.

SPEAKER_02 15:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Because they were frosted see-through bottles. Um, and I wanted to kind of just elevate that so that when you actually used it, you would see it was the same colour as the bottle, and it was just fun. Yeah, um, and obviously have the gold and like the little emblem on it and stuff. And yes, it do you know what? When we first done it, yeah, retail,

Why Alex fell out of love with retail

SPEAKER_00 15:19

but now I've completely changed my opinion on retail. I'm not a really big fan of retail, yeah, which we can talk about for the five.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

I would love to, yeah. Tell me more.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

Well, I just think that I don't think that retail's dead by any means. I think that it's alive and thriving for sure.

SPEAKER_03 15:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

But I feel like people have forgotten artisan. I feel like they've forgotten what actually truly makes the world go round. Yeah. Um, and they think it is the quickest, most fastest thing that you could possibly get.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

And to be artisan, you can't necessarily be in retail because let's say what Selfridge is, can I have 10,000 units of this and I need it delivered in 90 days?

SPEAKER_00 15:54

Yeah, you're like, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

Yeah, it's not gonna happen because it's you and your sister, you're just calling in the cavalry to get it done, and then it's not necessarily artisan anymore because that it's against the ethos.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

But also, not only that, it's the cash flow, yeah, who's paying for that? But Selfridges have got the money to pay for it.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

You are paying for it for 90 days until Selfridges will pay you for it after the delivery date.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

And I used to work in Selfridges, and I know the workers that were working in like um all of the other brands. Like, so I was with one brand, but they were sorting out everything else, and I they were unbothered by the brands that were there, yeah. You know, they were just there doing a job.

SPEAKER_03 16:30

Yeah, so true.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Whenever I was working in retail, I loved everything about the brands I was working for, or like I was trying to suggest the best, but I loved everything about it, so it's hard to find more of me's that will love skincare in a way that will really showcase your brand without you being there.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

So people think, oh wow, you're in Selfridges, you must be selling loads. No, no, if there's no one in there to show you what this brand is, or if you know you may have gone in there for yourself because you've seen it on our Instagram, whatever, it's just gonna get dust on the shelf, and we're a natural organic brand that has to be used, you know. Yeah, we have a shelf life that is way lower than all these other brands. Um, so yeah, I just retail for me is all about the experience and the pop-ups. Yeah, you know, that's for me, and obviously I know about your pop-up, but the experience that the customer gets when they come to your own thing that you've created. Yeah. And you've got control of it. And I think having a small business, you have to remember that you should have most of the control.

SPEAKER_03 17:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

And it's really hard to hear people say, Well, go into this store, do this, speak to that person. It's like, okay, I might be able to do that, but then what control am I gonna have over this? How much money am I gonna spend? Will I will it actually be the death of the brand? Yes, you know?

SPEAKER_02 17:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

So I think retail for me, the landscape has changed. Um, and if you're willing to pay the price to be in these stores, fine. If you're not, then I think you know, go it as you know, collaborate with other brands, do your own pop-ups.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

Yeah, there's other ways to go.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

There's other ways to get your name out there rather than just being in a big name because those big stores, they've got people companies that will make them millions. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

So why are they? That's who they care about. And that's who they care about.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Yeah, no, I totally agree. And it's it's a shame that it has to be that way. And I think hopefully there will be an uprising of companies that are more supportive of like indie brands. I know there's um I'm trying to think of what it's called. House of Butte. Have you heard of them? House of Butte, no. Yeah, they're like an online marketplace, but actually they're not they're not a drop shipping model. So they take your stock and they fulfill it and they ship it.

SPEAKER_04 18:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Um, I actually need to get all my products listed on there because yeah, and they're basically all about supporting independent beauty brands, and that's that's their stance. But the difficult thing is is that these big companies, like, that's where the money's at. Like, you know that the money's gonna come in, so that's why they favor them.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

So I think the change will come when a buyer steps into that position and goes, I want to champion artisan brands, and I want to create a space in these spaces that is directed at artisan brands. We have the famous brands, great, but let's have a section for these artisans, artisan brands, and to also give them like support to do that as well.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

Like not just financial, but like marketing support and like PR support and stuff. Yeah, okay, right. We need to ch we will afterwards we will get on to that.

Building the team & hiring mistakes

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Um okay, so kind of going back to just like the journey. Um, is it just you and your sister? Do you have do you have team members that you've hired or work with freelancers?

SPEAKER_00 19:32

We work with freelancers, so we don't fulfil anything anymore. We have a fulfillment um company that fulfills the orders. We have an email um uh team that does our emails, we have a meta people. Nice, and we have a social media girl, and just our friends and family if they're able to help in the studio, if we've got big orders or whatever, or big batches we need to make. But yeah, we've never we've never actually hired someone to work um with Nini on a contract.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

Have you ever hired the wrong person, be it a freelancer? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:05

Can you tell me more about that?

SPEAKER_00 20:07

I have, we have um this person came on board and basically just glorified their CV, and when they came on board, they did not deliver. And I was like, and I'm a I'm a person that I deliver excellence, so I kind of expect excellence back. Yeah, um, and I I think that is absolutely fair. Yeah, no, you know, if you're paying someone to do a job, yeah, I just expect it to be excellent, you know, especially in the field that that's this person came on board. I don't want to say because they'll know who they are. Hopefully they won't be listening. No, exactly. But yeah, so we had to let them go um quite quickly uh because I called them out on a few things.

SPEAKER_02 20:51

Oh wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:52

You know, one of the things for me was they sent some images that they took, and I was like, your shoes are in the background of this image of a product that you want to put on our Instagram. Are you joking? Yeah, um, and you know, the lucky, yeah, me and a cole like good cop, bad cop. And you'd think I'm actually quite I'm at I actually am a really nice person, but when it comes to it-I know you can be cutthroat. I can't, but because when it comes to it, like if you hired me, yeah, then I would just deliver on excellence. I'm not gonna lie. Like it's just that's just not the way it should be.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

No, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

So I was just a little bit brash, yes, because I was annoyed because when it's your business, it's your baby, you know, and the money that comes in and you're putting it out to other people, I just expect so everyone that's on our team is incredible and they're deserving of the money that we pay them. Yeah, definitely, you know, and like the time that they offer us, you know? So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

No, I get that.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

And I think long gone.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Long gone. Goodbye. I think it's also a disservice to keep someone in a role that also clearly isn't performing, regardless of how much they want the job. Yeah. I think like I had a conversation the other day um at a board meeting. And we were saying how it's actually just like it's one, they're doing a bad job for you and that's costing your business. But two, like they're clearly not thriving in the role, whether it's the wrong role for them, it's a mismatch of personalities with the teams, like whatever it is. It's actually you're doing yourself a favour for the business by telling them honestly that like it's not working, and you're doing them a favor so that they can then find a role that's like better suited to them. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

It's energy as well. Exactly. We vibe on the colour.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Yeah. No, and you need all of that for the business. So

The business partners he regretted

SPEAKER_01 22:33

kind of in the same vein, looking back, did you ever make a decision at the time where you were like, Nope, 100%, this is definitely the right thing to do? And and now looking back, you're like, why the hell did I do that?

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

Can you tell me?

SPEAKER_00 22:47

Um we we had uh another two people on part of our business that I was just overexcited to have them on board.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

Oh, I feel like I know who these are.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

No, these are two other people. Two other people. Um but they're both it's both the same thing. Uh basically. So when we first launched a year or two years in, we had these two people come on board.

SPEAKER_02 23:11

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

And it was just like me and Nicole aren't that busy. We're now much more business savvy.

SPEAKER_02 23:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

But back then we was probably wasn't we're a bit more excited, you know, a bit more excitable.

SPEAKER_03 23:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

Little puppies. Naive and young. Yeah, naive and young with the zoomies, just go running wild, you know. And um we learned a lot from that. It was it was quite uh an intense moment to let them go. Yeah. Um, and we had to, you know, do stuff to do that. Um, and then we was like never doing that again, and then we fell back into it. But that's fine. It is it's a learning, it's a lesson learned, and you know, with we we will thrive from it, basically.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

It's a lesson learned, and also I feel like it's just because you've been burned in in one situation doesn't mean that going into it again with with the with a different like mindset and at a different time doesn't mean that the same thing's gonna happen twice. I feel like it's unfortunate for you that like the same thing did happen twice because but yeah, we'll get into it.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

It's energies as well, and I just think that you know, when you have people come into the business, just make sure that energy all aligns in every single way. Yeah, I mean the first two people were like it's just an awkward situation because I was part of another world in their life, separate to when they came on board, and I separated myself from that from that situation, from that situation, but then had them come into my life, which then attached me back to some a situation. So I was just a bit like the energy was always gonna be off. So let's just, you know. Yeah. And I'm very happy that it it wasn't it was somewhat amicable at the end of it. Um, but yeah, it was it was a lesson learned, you know.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

No, I get that. And I I feel like it's you've got to try these things, you know what I mean? Oh my god, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

As an entrepreneur, yeah, you will never learn as many lessons as you have in your life being an entrepreneur than you ever did in school or life or whatever. It teaches you so many life lessons that you will take forever. Hundreds forever.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

Yeah, and you can't, in the same vein, you can't also take no risk. Because if you if you and I took no risks, we we wouldn't have a business. It's part of it, isn't it? You have to do it.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

You absolutely have to take a risk.

SPEAKER_01 25:36

You do. And so talking about kind of working with people in your life, what's it like working with your sister?

SPEAKER_00 25:43

Oh, the best. Is it it's so easy, and I get a lot of other entrepreneurs or other founders of brands be like, you're so lucky you have your sister, it's just me, and I have to do everything.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

Cam relate.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Cam relate, I know. And I've got a lot of friends that are just single um entrepreneurs, and I'm like, Oh, I wish like I kind of understand um you having to do everything, but at the same time, I don't because the things that I don't do, Nicole deals with, but the things that Nicole doesn't do, I deal with. So I have a lot on my shoulders as she does, but it's all it's actually all down to me of anything selling on of our brand. Yeah, it's not really down to Nicole. Um, so she has got a little bit of the glamorous way because she doesn't have any of that pressure.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

Um, because I am the proper face face of the brand.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

And did she ever want to be the face or never? Like never wanted to.

SPEAKER_00 26:35

Never, but she's always stepped up and she's incredible for it.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

Yeah, I do love it when I see her on the socials.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

Yeah, a lot of people do, and obviously, because like beauty, a lot of the beauty world is female led, and I'm hearing a, you know, we're part of the woman built by woman, women built by women because of Nicole. But obviously, I am the found, like the face and the formulator. So I know all the knowledge of Nene, not necessarily Nicole, she might know all the business side to it. So it's tricky when it comes to those situations because I don't want to step on anyone's toes because I am the man in that business. Yeah, you know, and I identify, I'm he him, like I identify in that way. So I was like, oh, I feel bad because but I'm I'm gay. Like I'm part of the kind of one of you, but not I'm kind of a girl in that. So yeah, I just yeah, I love Nicole to pieces, um, but and she steps up a lot when it comes to um, you know, being the being on camera or whatever or talking about the brand. She's not very good about talking about the product, but she will put her hands up and say that.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

But when it comes to her energy and just her femininity, she just lives for it.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

Yeah, no, I love that. It's it's nice to hear. I feel like it's I guess when it's family, especially. Yeah, it's a very different relationship. It's it is, isn't it? Like when you've got a good relationship with your family, it's just it's like a walk in the park. Like even disagreements, it's just like, well, obviously, we're gonna get over this because like I mean, we you're my sister.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

We back in the early days, we had screaming matches, and then the next thing we're like, have you poured that by the way? Like two seconds afterwards, like, yeah, yeah, it's all done. We forget about that.

SPEAKER_03 28:12

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

I couldn't imagine doing that with a business partner. No, like I the energy would be so toxic. Yeah, it's just it's just not a toxic environment in the organics. Like, no, I love it. We have so much banter.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

Yeah, and it's so funny. Yeah, I would love to um I'd love to be a fly on the wall of just like your life sometimes, just see what's going on in the studio.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

So would I.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

I hope so. Talking about social media and kind of being the face of it, I know, I know you reply to every comment, every DM, you voice note people. Do you feel the pressure to always show up as like confident, happy, like everything's going well? Like, how do you kind of balance that?

SPEAKER_00 28:51

Do you know what? It's gonna sound really annoying, but I don't find the pressure simply because I am such a festive person. I know, I'm I'm literally I'm literally living the dream. Like I actually literally am living what I always wanted to do in the beauty world. Yeah. So how can I be upset about it? Even when the times are hard, I'm like, I wouldn't have it any other way because it is all for my future or whatever. And I just get to have so much fun with it, you know? Um, and I've always been that person that would be like, look, if anyone's gonna, you know, if well I've got a social media girl, Molly, she's great, I love her, but I said don't touch the DMs. And my DMs, my DMs, comments, obviously, like you can heart them and you can say like little like little things here and there.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

So I'm brand, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 29:37

Yeah, if somebody's DMing me, then I'm sending them a voice note, I'm sending them the video note. I am literally giving them something that they don't necessarily get from they will never get from a big brand, that's for sure. Absolutely. Or a legacy brand. They'll never get, you will never be able to speak to the founder. Could you imagine DMing Charlotte Tilbury's Instagram being like, yo, Charlotte, how's it going?

SPEAKER_01 29:54

And she tell me about the magic creep and how do you use it? And she's showing you a video of her using the magic creep.

SPEAKER_00 29:59

They're doing it, do you know what I mean? So I just like that I I just I love that about Nene, is that you you get and we have a phone, you can phone us. The age of the age of the kind of like fast growing or whatever, internet or whatever it may be, or just like the the AI, sorry, the age of the AI. It's like, let's have bots just do it for us. It's like, well, why don't we just bring back the phones? Because you know, Sarah's order's missing and she wants to speak to someone. Hello, Nini Organics, how can I help? Do people use it a lot? Uh for WhatsApp, yes.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

Uh they WhatsApp you.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

But we have times, obviously. On the weekend, no, yeah. But during the week it's on, and they can WhatsApp and you know, they can call.

SPEAKER_01 30:40

And it goes through to your personal number.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

No, no, no, no, it's the Nini number.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

You've got a Nini phone.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

Yeah, it's a Nini phone, yeah. Okay. We had I got the Nini phone.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

Paige, write that down. It's the best thing in the world.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

It's the best thing in the world. And then obviously, like you just you're with your customers and it's there and then, and like they get what and they're like, I've just never had this before. This is so amazing.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

And I'm like, it's but why not? Yeah, and it's so I think customer service is so important. Like, we we will constantly get people in in our DMs and on our emails, and they're like, Oh, it's fantastic customer service service. And all we've done is reply to their email in like two hours, like, and it's but like it's something that you like really pride yourself on because I hate it when you go onto the brands and it's like no no DMs, like we won't respond to your DMs. And it's like if you just keep on top of your DMs, like you like it's not that difficult, and it's that little personal touch, and I feel like for brands like ours, it makes such a difference.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

And you never know who's in your DMs.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

Yeah, you never know.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

Like I've DM brands and I've been aired and ghosted. Yeah. And I'm like, you just never know who's in your DMs, you know. That's true. You never know what collaboration you can do. You never know what can happen.

SPEAKER_01 31:45

And you're leaving that on the table because you're not checking.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

Because you're not checking. What's the point of having it if you don't check?

SPEAKER_01 31:50

No, exactly. No, it's it's it's very true.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

And if it's not your job, it's somebody else's job to check. So just check.

SPEAKER_01 31:55

Exactly. Yeah, everyone has social media managers. It's Meg's job to check the DMs.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

Exactly. Those DMs.

SPEAKER_01 32:01

Oh, I love it. Um, okay, so changing topic slightly, would you say that building Nini has cost you anything? Whether that's like anything like personally, financially, probably not mentally, because you're a very festive person. But can you like, is there anything where you're like, I've missed out on doing something, or the brand's taken priority over parts of your life?

SPEAKER_00 32:25

Um, I mean, a lot of my friends get annoyed at me for not trying to keep up with them.

SPEAKER_01 32:29

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

And I'm just like, guys, like, I love you all pieces so much. But like, you know, I'm not gonna groups, I refuse to be in group messages as well. And my fiance, Alex, he like runs our group messages basically because I cannot be bothered to go through group messages. Um, and where I where I put a lot into helping our customers and like the DMs and stuff, I just you know, I keep my friendship pool very small as well. I've got no interest in new friends.

SPEAKER_01 32:58

Yeah, oh I love that.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

Yeah, I just I have no interest. Like my my Alex, he loves meeting meet new people. Yeah, but we might be out and about and he'll strike up a conversation and meet new people. Yeah, and that's great, and I love that. I love that energy so much. But if somebody wants to strike up a conversation with me and like, you know, we can talk great, but if they want to have a friendship, I'm like, I've already got some friends, and I just have a time. Yeah, I just don't have time for any new friends.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

I I do get that. Do you know what is so funny? I was literally thinking like this morning when I got out of bed, strange thought, but I was just thinking, like, I wonder if other people in like nine to five jobs like feel this way because in the exact same vein that you were saying, it's like I just feel like the business consumes so much of me mentally that like ordering presents, booking holidays, like life admin. I'm just like, oh, this is too much effort. And is it is it because we're just giving so much to our businesses?

SPEAKER_00 33:50

It might be, but I I think it's also protecting your own energy and what needs to serve you as well. Like I've got incredible friends, and I I was bullied at school, and I had no friends at school. I hid from year nine to year, no, year eight to year nine. I hid. I used to I used to get to my mum used to drive me to school and I would get there like I think 15 minutes early, and I'd walk around the top field listening to music before having to head into

Growing up gay, alone & finding resilience

SPEAKER_00 34:16

directly into class because I was too afraid to go into the playground because I had no friends.

SPEAKER_03 34:20

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

Um, so I kind of know what it felt like to be that way, like have no friends and anything like that. And I think I healed my own self. Like I'd done a lot of my own mental work when I was a kid on that journey, and I had acne as well, and I was get struggling with being gay and whatnot. So when it came into me finding my confidence and like people drawing to my energy, I just protect it a lot. You know, I I haven't got time for that person out on a night out going, Oh my god, you're my new gay best friend. No, I'm not. I'm never gonna see you again. So it's absolutely fine. We've had our moment and that's cool.

SPEAKER_03 34:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

Um when it comes to our customers, if I ever get anyone come up to me, oh yeah, say, are you the founder of Nini Organics? I love your products, then it's like, let's go for lunch. Yeah, literally, we're besties. We're besties, I'm obsessed, you know, because you've supported my absolute joy and you supported Nini, like incredible. I owe you as well some of my time. But if it's just somebody random, then I've already got my friends. Yeah, no, I've got enough that I need to nourish. You've got your people. I've got my people. No, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

Yeah, and the ex your experience of being a kid being bullied, do you think that's obviously shaped you into who you are?

SPEAKER_00 35:29

A million it's what's it's what's given me mental clarity. Yeah, interesting. And it's what's helped me navigate vices as well. So I don't drink, don't smoke, and obviously don't do drugs.

SPEAKER_03 35:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:39

So being a young kid and not having not been exposed to that because I was uh I was alone. Like I had.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

And has it always been that way? You've never drunk, never smoked.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

Yeah, I mean, obviously I've had a tickle every now and then. Like I'm not like I've tried things, obviously. Never smoked, no. I just think it's the worst habit in the whole entire world. I think it's disgusting and I think it's so insulting. And me and my partner went to Japan recently and they have designated areas.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

They all smoke out there as well.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

No, but they have designated areas where they can smoke. They're not allowed to smoke on the street. Oh wow. You're not allowed to walk behind somewhere that smokes. That you can't do it, and I was like, this is fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

That is amazing.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

And when they put that block in in clubs and stuff, I was like, oh my god, I'm obsessed. Not that I was a big clubber, but I was like obsessed. And restaurants and all that stuff. Because I grew up in a household, my parents smoked, and I was like, Wow, yeah. Um, so yeah, I just have always been that way inclined, and well-being and health was just all intrinsic within me. And I think that's because I had health issues when I was younger. Well, I don't think it was a health issue, I was epileptic. So I had epilepsy when I was a kid. Um there was just a few issues with me as a kid, so I think I just dealt with a lot of things from a very young age through music, through art, and through creating.

SPEAKER_03 36:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

So I just really took that into my later life, and I'm I'm the same, you know, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

Yeah. Oh, yeah, exactly. Sees sees light in a joyful way. I know I think that's beautiful, and I think it's it's horrible and hard that you have to go through that at such a young age, but the resilience that you then build to do this is like, yeah, flexing the muscles.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

I would not want anyone to go through what I went through as a kid, but going through that really does build you up to where you are today.

SPEAKER_02 37:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

I mean, it wasn't dramatic, like it wasn't like the worst thing. I had a loving family, like I had great people surrounding me. And like I had friends from the age from like my young, my younger, younger, like six, uh, what's it called? Year six school. I can't remember what it's called terms of. Primary school, primary school now, um, but then just lost them all in secondary school and was just on my own, one friend, just on my own, just hiding from the world. But that I just learned so much from that. I I learned a lot from that.

SPEAKER_01 37:46

Yeah, you do.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

It gave me a lot.

SPEAKER_01 37:47

I I yeah, I I get that. Yeah, it's it does shape you as a person. It really does. Like we were saying earlier, weirdly, like I like similarly. I'm like, I wouldn't change any of the crap that happened when we were kids because it shapes you into who you are now.

SPEAKER_02 38:01

Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

Um, okay, we're gonna change change the tune slightly. Um

Dragons' Den — the full story

SPEAKER_01 38:07

but I do feel like resilience comes a lot into this. I want to talk about Dragon's Den. Oh yeah. Please. So I feel like it's every business owner's dream to go on Dragon's Den and the opportunity that comes off the back of it. I'd love to hear what your experience was like.

SPEAKER_00 38:27

I mean, it was it was such a moment. It was a moment in time, you know. I can only put it down to as pure magic. So I went, I was actually um in the final rounds for The Apprentice. LOL.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

Shut up! Tell me

The Apprentice, Coach Trip & early YouTube

SPEAKER_01 38:43

more.

SPEAKER_00 38:43

I know. So I've done a lot of TV, I've done a lot of TV shows. I've done Coach Trip. I was on Coach Trip Road to Ibiza, which you can watch still. I was on Release the Hounds. The thing is, is that I'd done I was like one of the original YouTubers back in the day, and if I'd done YouTube more, I would have been like the Zoella's a jack's gap of the time, right?

SPEAKER_01 39:01

Oh, hold on. I feel like so much is coming out again.

SPEAKER_00 39:05

I was like one of the original virality moments and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 39:08

Stop, tell me more.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

So I started it back in 20, no, 2003. Oh my god. I was 13 when I started it, right? And the very first video ever done was called Chin Face, where you used to put a towel. I remember. Do you remember the chin faces? Yes. So I had chin face, right? And it was me and my friend we were just being silly. And then I just realized that like I really enjoyed this because I gave up my acting career. But YouTube was like a destination where you could really put yourself out there.

SPEAKER_03 39:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

And this was at the point where it was star system, not the thumbs, it was a star system, right? So I was at the early days of YouTube.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

I don't even remember that.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

Yeah, they had five stars of or one star that you could star the videos. Um, so most people probably listen to this had probably have no idea that that used to be a thing. So then I started, um, me and my friend, we went to bat um to Soho and was in balance, and I was like, Jess, I need a name. And so she coined me Alex Moments, and I was like, I love it, because like what I do on YouTube is like a moment. Yeah. So then I started doing this like YouTube stuff called Alex Moments, like just doing moments, like things, random things, right? And then it kind of went into a bit of skincare, done this egg white facial, which went viral, went over, got over a million views, and at that time was huge, right?

SPEAKER_03 40:20

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 40:21

And then I found my niche because I love Mariah Carey, like dream means there we go. And my all. Um, like she's my favourite artist of all time. Like, I love her music so much and her writing and her abilities, her skills, everything. And I found my niche. I started reacting to Mariah Carey videos, and reaction videos were not a thing. Like, no one was doing reaction videos, and I started that. And I'm saying He's a trendsetter. Yeah, I'm self-proclaiming the fact that I started the trend of reaction videos. I'm just saying, I'm putting it out of there.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

As you should.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

Because no one was doing it at the time. And it went viral. Mariah

Going viral: Mariah Carey & Jimmy Fallon

SPEAKER_00 40:57

Carey saw my well, Jimmy Fallon saw my video, and I had no idea who this person was because I'd done a reaction to her and Jimmy Fallon doing a song, What about Christmas You, whatever. And he put me on his show. He spoke about me on his show. He said, guys, you need to see this hilarious British guy called Alex Nicolau. Um, said my name and showed my video, right? And the crowd were laughing and everything. Then he showed it to Mariah Carey, but Mariah Carey had tweeted me, this is when Twitter was huge, about another video that I had done. Because once again, I found my niche reacting to Mariah Carey. She tweeted me saying, I love you, I think you're hilarious. And this was at the age of um E equals M C squared, just after Emancipation of Mimi. And I was like, I lost it when Mariah I woke up in my ex's house and I lost it. My phone had exploded.

SPEAKER_03 41:46

How old were you?

SPEAKER_00 41:47

I was 22, I think, at this point. And I was like, Mariah Carey, my idol, has seen me, has seen my video. Her and JD watched my video in their studio, like laughing about it.

SPEAKER_04 41:57

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

And she was like, I love you, blah blah. So anyway, I I kind of just had this moment with YouTube. And um, from YouTube, I realized, wait, I could like get into my acting world, but like I could have control of it. And then I started getting approached approached by TV producers, and they said, like, we'd love for you for you to audition to be on a TV show, release the hounds, um uh what was it called? Coach Trip. Coach Trip. So that kind of started my little TV journey back in there. I was probably like 24, 25 at that point. And then um I done a few other random shows and whatnot. And then The Apprentice, I've always loved The Apprentice until I knew about The Apprentice.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

Wait, what do you know about The Apprentice?

SPEAKER_00 42:39

Well, I mean, the person that is the, you know, the I don't want to say their name, but you know, the main person.

SPEAKER_01 42:46

Right.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

Um, they're homophobic and they're just you know, yeah, not a nice person.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:51

So I was like, I didn't know any of that until after I had uh the audition. Obviously, fly through the auditions and was at the last stage where I was you'd be perfect for it. You'd be perfect. But I didn't want to be a I didn't want to be a check. In TV, you're a check. You're either of a certain race that you need to be, or you're gay. So I was the check the gay, right? And I didn't want to be the check, the tick or whatever it is. Um same with Big Brother. Big Brother wanted me on their show, but just to be the tick of the gay, and I didn't want that. Yeah, um, but that was a that was a funny situation. I got coach trip instead of Big Brother because I wasn't bitchy enough, because I'm not a bitchy person. I'm was too happy, I was too kind.

SPEAKER_01 43:27

You're too festive.

SPEAKER_00 43:28

I was too festive, and they didn't want that. They wanted they wanted someone to cause drama, and I was like, I'm not really interested in the drama. It's not good for the energy levels.

SPEAKER_01 43:35

Absolutely not, no. We do not like drama.

SPEAKER_00 43:37

Yeah, I've got no time for it. So anyway, um, Dragon uh The Apprentice came about and I was I was in the final audition. And do you know what? In hindsight, I wish I just walked out of it because it was not for me. I was surrounded by complete binary. Um, even though I am a he him, but I'm just I'm very much in my world of the LGBTQ webcast community, and it just felt very boy girl versus. Each other like and corporate as fuck. Corporate as fuck. And I was just like, oh, this is not for me. But I was in a room where five of the people in that room, from the boys and the girls, was on the show. So I was obviously in the room that they were looking at people to be on this show. Anyway, I left the audition and I was like, it's I've definitely not got that. I'm not interested. I would I would have turned it down if they would have offered it for me. I learned a lot more about the host, and I was like, Yeah, not for me. And then my sister called and she's like, How did it go? And I was like, Yeah, look, let's do Dragon's Den. Because I've always wanted this. This was 2022. Okay. So I always wanted to do Dragon's Den. Always I've loved the show. Yeah. I've loved the idea of it. Like it's so much fun. And she said, Okay, cool. They're actually apply-like you can put an application form in. So she did. She put an application form in for us. We didn't hear anything from them. And we both actually completely forgot. And then I had a DM from this girl called Sophie, who was a researcher at the time, and all the researchers changed. So everyone's like, Can you put me in touch? And I'm like, they all changed. I can't. She's got nothing to do with the show now. So she DM'd us saying, guys loved your brand. Would you have you ever thought about going on Dragon's Den? Now there's another story of Dragon's Den because we I don't know if I should say it.

SPEAKER_01 45:09

Well, Dickens, no, say it. Don't get yourself in trouble, but say it.

SPEAKER_00 45:13

We um got approached by Dragon's Den two years prior to us just applying and then them reapproaching us. Um but we were at the wrong stage of our career to even go on it. Yeah. But we were approached by them and we were obviously in our feels and like, yeah, let's go for it. But we got turned down. And I believe we got turned down because I found out that the producer or researcher or whatever at the time, one of the decision makers, was my ex-girlfriend's sister.

SPEAKER_01 45:42

Shut the front door.

SPEAKER_00 45:44

I'm so gay, I've had two girlfriends, they were fabulous, incredible people, but obviously I'm gay, like I can't do what I mean, like men.

SPEAKER_01 45:52

That is salty if that's the reason, though.

SPEAKER_00 45:54

But and I was like, she I reckon she said absolutely not because I wasn't the best 18, 17-year-old at that point when I broke up with that girl. And I very much am apologetic to it. I don't have her number, I've never been able to apologise. So I'm not sure. Sorry if you're listening. Um, but you know. And anyway, so I think that's why we didn't get on the show.

SPEAKER_01 46:15

Also, everything for a reason.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

Everything happens for a reason. And I actually know for a fact that we didn't because when we got on the show. So anyway, Sophie messed us and I said, Oh, that's so funny, we um applied, like we never heard back. She goes, Oh, let me find your application form. I found it, I'm gonna call you tomorrow. And it was a very quick turnaround from that initial call to us being on the show. When we got on, when we got to Manchester and we were behind the scenes and was in the setup stage and everything, I said to one of the producers, you guys reached out to us a couple of years ago. So he was like, Yeah, I know. And I was like, Did we not get on because of so-and-so? And he was like, Yeah. And I was like, ah, I knew it! I knew it.

SPEAKER_03 46:52

Scandal!

SPEAKER_00 46:53

Scandalous. So anyway, I I guess we were destined to be put on that show. Definitely. And they used me in the promo as well. They didn't use anyone else, they just used me in the promo, which was hilarious. It was all the celebrities and me, like Lol. I was like, Hello.

SPEAKER_01 47:07

I am a celebrity.

SPEAKER_00 47:08

I was like, what did I say? I was like, this is the start of our destiny or something like that. And they used it in the clip when we were in the elevator. Anyway, listen, I am not a nervous person. You put me in front of a crowd, and I just I love it. I think it's fun. Why not? I like being put in situations which you can hold on to as an experience. I don't want to just coast through life, I want to have experiences. My sister, on the other hand, she'd never done anything like that, so she was nervous as anything.

SPEAKER_01 47:35

Yeah, I can imagine.

SPEAKER_00 47:36

It was it was quite nerve-wracking to be fair. And you have to do your pitch and everything, and we fluffed our pitch, but never showed that. The doors opened and you just see them sit in there, and I was just like, Stop it. This is I feel anxious, you've even telling me. This can't be true. Like, is this real? I mean, prior to that, like, you're in the green room, you see, you see like two other contestants that you're speaking to, then you can't speak to them again, ever again, or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 48:00

Oh wow, really?

SPEAKER_00 48:00

They like keep you separate. Once you go in and you do your pitch, they keep you separate. And then, like, you know, you you do the whole film and behind the scenes stuff, and you walk him through the little stuff and pressing the button and go into the fake elevator. And I remember the guys uh we were standing there before we was actually gonna go into in front of the judges, because you do it a few times without the judges being there, just like so they can get the film in or whatever they need to get. And I remember when it was actually our time to go in, the guy that opens the doors was sitting there, was like, good luck, guys, you've got this. And he like pulls open the door, and I was like, Nicole, too funny. Get into the elevator, they keep you in there for a little bit. You can hear the judges speak, you can hear the I'm gonna call them celebrities because that's what they are. The celebrities, you can hear the celebrities speaking, and I was like, Nicole, those doors are gonna open any minute now. We're gonna be facing them. Anyway, they opened, we faced them. It was mad, you kind of go a bit blank.

SPEAKER_03 48:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:52

We was in there for two and a half hours, and then they were just chatting at us for ages.

SPEAKER_03 48:56

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 48:57

Um and I hate those kind of questions, like, well, what makes you different?

SPEAKER_03 49:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:02

Like, I just like, well, why don't you just join, like, be a customer and you find out what makes us different, you know? Like, I can sell you the story, but just be a customer and you can find out. And they really wanted us to like, I don't know, give them some kind of whatever in that moment. So I just turned and I was like, listen, we're a skincare brand that lives for the fantasy.

SPEAKER_02 49:19

And I was like, What did I just say? I love that though.

SPEAKER_00 49:23

I know, but like, in and they didn't show on the actual airing of the um, because we filmed it on 2023 and it aired in 2024. Yeah. So we had a year. Um, but when they actually filmed, uh, when they when we actually watched it back, I was like, they didn't show much about the products, it was more about our personality, which is fine. But I was like, oh, they didn't really get enough about the products because they all love the products, so they were using them, they're going, This feels amazing, blah blah blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_01 49:46

Would have been great publicity as well.

SPEAKER_00 49:47

I know, yeah, it could have been great at little soundbite. Um anyway, we took the offer from Stephen and Peter, and obviously, you know, all I'll say about the show is it is a TV show at the end of the day, so what happens behind the scenes is not exactly what happens in front of the camera. So, you know, the show itself was worth every single moment.

SPEAKER_01 50:10

Oh, being aired.

SPEAKER_00 50:11

If you if your episode airs, it's worth everything. We still reap the benefits of that episode airing now.

SPEAKER_01 50:16

Yeah, amazing.

SPEAKER_00 50:17

Customers are still coming to me getting emails saying, I saw your dragons den, I would love to have a ritual routine, I love the idea of your brand, blah blah blah. Wow, um, you know, and it it really scaled our sales and everything, and we managed to get enough money to do a big rebrand to get enough stock in and stuff. Um, but it is like it's it's a crazy experience. Yes, yeah, one I think if if you're if you're wanting or willing to go on it, do it. If you get on the show and you take the ex have the exposure, amazing. You know, just really think about the actual deal. But yeah, if you actually get on the show, it's beyond anything you've ever dreamed of.

SPEAKER_01 50:51

No, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:51

You know, we made six we made six figures in the week or two weeks of that show airing. That's it. And I was like for a small indie niche brand, that was unbelievable. And we're a costly product, yeah. It's not like you have to think about before you purchase it. It's an intentional purchase, it's an intentional purchase, it's not like uh okay, they're 20 pounds, I'm gonna buy it. Like, you know, the our Dragon Sent offer was £129 for three of our best-selling products, and we sold a lot of them, and I was like, oh my god, Nicole.

SPEAKER_01 51:24

We're rich!

SPEAKER_00 51:27

That money went very quickly. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:28

I mean, it does. Where does it even go? I know.

SPEAKER_00 51:30

I was like, where has that money gone? Like, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 51:33

It does, it goes poof, it's not like we've taken it, no.

SPEAKER_00 51:36

It went straight back into the brand, into the rebrand, into stock, into moving studio, into everything that you could possibly think of. It went into.

SPEAKER_01 51:43

And did were there any unexpected road bumps off the back of that kind of viral moment of being on Dragon's Den?

SPEAKER_00 51:50

All I listen, because it is a TV show, all they need is the content, and that's it. They don't necessarily and you know, you see this a lot with TV shows, like people actually committing suicide and stuff. And that is the unfortunate effect of being on a show, yeah, is that they get their content, that's it. You know, the aftercare, is there any?

SPEAKER_03 52:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:12

And you know, we asked many, many times, are we definitely gonna be on? Are we definitely gonna be on? And you're never given a solid answer. And that stresses you out with the stock that you might need to have for it airing.

SPEAKER_01 52:22

It's very true.

SPEAKER_00 52:23

Yeah, so that was the stumbling blocks that we face. Like, wait, like, I feel like we're gonna be on. It seems like a guarantee, but how much stock, how much stock should we order? How much bottles should we order? What what what do we even do? And there's no advice.

SPEAKER_01 52:36

Um because like the the your the worst situation to be in is to have no stock around all the people wanting to buy, exactly, or have all the stock and you don't get eggs.

Did the investment actually solve problems?

SPEAKER_00 52:47

Exactly, exactly. So it is a it is a real tough one, yeah. But when you when you're on TV and you look at your Shopify and you see the amount of people on and you hear the dick dick ding ding ding doubling tick, you're like it it's it's like a dopamine hit that you never knew you needed in that moment. It was crazy. It was crazy. Would I do it again? Absolutely, yeah, yeah. Would I change some of the things? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 53:14

Yes, and I I have heard. So my next question is, which you might be able to go into some detail of, is did the investment solve problems or did it create new ones that you then had to deal with?

SPEAKER_00 53:27

Um, do you know what? The investment it's it's it's not a real investment, is what I was saying.

SPEAKER_03 53:34

In what sense?

SPEAKER_00 53:35

You're not like £50,000 for 20%. Yeah, yeah. That £50,000 is not gonna get you anywhere. Yeah. If you want to make a skincare brand or beauty brand actually have legs in this industry quite quickly or get it moving quite quickly, you need millions. Oh yeah. £50,000 is not giving you the scratch the surface, so it's not a real business deal in that sense.

SPEAKER_03 53:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:54

Um I mean it isn't, it isn't, you know. If you sign the contract, you sign the contract. If you don't, you don't.

SPEAKER_03 53:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:00

Um I think just expectations, you know, that's what that's what I would say me and Nicole really wanted to get out of the whatever it was. Their experience, their experience, their expectations. So I think you have to go into if you're on that show, you have to go in with just understanding and managing expectations and stuff, and just being vigilant on what you need and what you want. Um, but yeah, once again, I just wouldn't change the actual exposure the show gave us, you know.

SPEAKER_01 54:30

I was gonna ask, would you have changed anything looking back now if you were to do it again? Would you do anything differently?

SPEAKER_00 54:36

Uh we would do one thing differently, which is I'll let people guess. It might come out soon. Say no. Say no, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:44

Um, and if anyone is listening who is considering, I mean, I'm considering it as well, applying for Dragon's Den, like what advice would you give to people?

SPEAKER_00 54:52

Just okay, it's a TV show. Yeah. It's the only advice I can possibly give you. It's a TV show. Really take it for what it is, and that you're talking to celebrities. Yeah. Yeah, they're celebrities at the end of the day. It's a TV show. If it's gonna work, it's gonna work, you know? Um, and if you get on the show, just be prepared for the amazing amount of customers that you'll you'll gain and custom uh also the amazing amount of emails that you're gonna get from customers like not understanding a lot of things as well. Yeah, you know, or mishearing what you said on the show. We had a few customers say, well, Nicole, because Nicole has had a reaction to poriurethane something.

SPEAKER_03 55:35

Right.

SPEAKER_00 55:36

An ingredient that's used in special effects makeup. Ah, yeah, and somebody thought that Nini cured her reaction, which we never said.

SPEAKER_01 55:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:45

Um, and they were really upset. And I was like, but we never said that, and they were still really upset.

SPEAKER_01 55:50

Oh, so they tried the products, realized it didn't cure the reaction.

SPEAKER_00 55:53

No, no, no, no, they hadn't even bought it at that point. She said what products had cured Nicole's reaction. I said, Oh no, no, no, you've you must have misinterpreted what was said on the show. They didn't. Nicole just had to give up that career because she had that reaction in the special effects. Interesting. So she joined Nini Organics as like the business mogul that she is. I'm the founder formulator alongside her, but I formulate everything, and it's not a cure for that. And she was like, but you said it on TV and was like, No, we didn't.

SPEAKER_01 56:20

Find find the sound bar, babe.

SPEAKER_00 56:22

Yeah, rewatch it, you'll find out we didn't. And she was adamant that she heard it, and I was like, I'm sorry, I don't know what else she wanted to say to you.

SPEAKER_03 56:27

Like, we never said that.

SPEAKER_00 56:28

You know, Nini is a support system, it's definitely good for to give you healthy skin, but it's not a cure. No skincare's a cure.

SPEAKER_01 56:34

No, nothing.

SPEAKER_00 56:35

You are the cure, you're the miracle cure. Yeah, it's just a support system.

SPEAKER_01 56:38

Yeah, no, I love

The aftermath: negative comments & TV trolls

SPEAKER_01 56:39

that. And yeah, and off the back of Dragon's Den, did you receive any negative sort of?

SPEAKER_00 56:46

I was on YouTube recently and I looked at a car, I forgot that you can even comment on YouTube videos, and well, I didn't forget, but I just didn't look. And then I looked saying, This couple are so annoying. It's like brother and sister, we definitely said that on the show. On the most thing I ever got, ever get in TV is you're annoying. Like, even when I was on um coach trip, you know, that's all we got was you're annoying, you're annoying, you're annoying, you're annoying. Or you're playing up to cameras. And I was like, Hun, if you were actually in my life day to day, you would see this is just me. Yeah, I just live for the fantasy because why we've got one short life, why not make the most of it?

SPEAKER_03 57:21

It's true.

SPEAKER_00 57:21

You know, otherwise we'll just be upset the whole time.

SPEAKER_03 57:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:24

We just have to live. Yeah, you know, it's it's and I like to live in happiness, or like in this fairy world.

SPEAKER_01 57:30

I need some of this in my life. Right? Yeah, I feel like it's I I love the energy. I think it's especially in business, it should be.

SPEAKER_00 57:39

Can I say, do you know what I think I put that down to my energy being the way it is? It's because I played with Barbies when I was little. Yeah. I was I was a pink kid. Yeah, like I loved pink, rainbow, colourful, rounded things. I wasn't into the harshness that boys had.

SPEAKER_03 57:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:55

I was into the girly stuff, you know, into that femininity. And I think that's what gave me my energy that I kind of live in this world of like mermaids, angels, fairies, butterflies. All the positive things. Ethereal. Ethereal, all the positive things that you think of when you think of positivity.

SPEAKER_01 58:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:14

So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:15

No, I think it's I no, I I think it's such a good place to live your life because it's it is energy sucking to be like to be in that point of. I mean, like, I definitely go through times of bad mental health, and I'm very open about it online. And like the times where I where I am in that place, I just think, God, I'm so fed up of being fed up. Like, do you know what I mean? And it's it's um, it's just like sometimes so annoying being in your brain where you're like, oh, just like why can't I just be happy?

Mental health, rituals & why Nini exists

SPEAKER_01 58:45

Do you know what?

SPEAKER_00 58:45

Subconsciously, I think I made Nini Organics because it's a ritual, and rituals help you get out of that state of mind as well.

SPEAKER_04 58:51

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 58:52

So I think subconsciously, from going what I went through as a kid of being like alone, no friends, having acne, not understanding that I was gay and all that stuff. I think I fell into these rituals that helped me. My coping mechanisms, like watching Matilda, listening to Mariah Carey, listening to the Divas, they were rituals to me, you know, having a bath, locking myself in that bathroom, playing with all my mum's products. Yeah, that was like a ritual to me that helped me get out get out or escape that world. And being in nature, forest bathing is my number one.

SPEAKER_01 59:19

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 59:20

So, yeah, I think subconsciously maybe I made Nini because of my childhood. Yeah, I don't know, I've never thought about that. No, it's true.

SPEAKER_01 59:26

Yeah, just pulled it, pulled it out of you. Um, there's definitely been research as well around um how like skincare routines can help alleviate like depression and anxiety because it is something, something like you say, ritualistic, something that you're doing like day to day, and it's like almost like structure, it's like you know, when I'm when I'm feeling at my worst, just having that five minutes to myself to just take my makeup off, put my skincare on, it's it's almost like mind-numbing in a good way to stop you from thinking.

SPEAKER_00 59:57

So but also it's touch. We've forgotten to touch ourselves. Yeah, yeah, a lot of people forget to touch ourselves. Your products are very much touch-oriented or oriented oriented oriented. Yeah, I hate words sometimes. Like your cleansing, the texture of it, your hair oil, your lash, your lip, like all that stuff is all about touch. And I think we've come, like everyone loves the tools and stuff. Great. I love a gouacha because goua shar adds your touch to it. But a lot of people love a tool, and I'm like, but you're taking away from your actual biggest tools, your hands. That's true, you know, and we forget to touch ourselves, like aerosol deodorants, like they should be banned, like you should be touching our armpits.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:35

Yeah, I hate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:36

Like you should be massaging these areas because they're soft areas, and you need to check yourself for like lumps or anything like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:41

The lymph as well, lymph nodes moving, yeah, all that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:44

Touch is very important. Yeah, no, and rip touch and ritual go hand in hand for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:49

I never, yeah, I've never put two and two together. I like that. Um, so I guess kind of coming into the finale of the podcast. Um, so you've come so far from that sort of first market stall sale. Would you say that you are still inside? Or do you I'll start that again? You've come so far from that first market stall sale. Would you say that you're still in the messy middle?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:17

Yeah. Yeah. I think we're still deep in it. I don't know if you can ever get out of the messy middle.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:21

It was gonna be my follow-up. Do you think it ever ends?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:23

Yeah, I don't I don't know. Uh unless you want it to end, unless you want to exit and sell. Like, I don't know. But but I think I thrive off of it as well because I don't I'm not a plain sailing person. I mean, I there's comfort in comfort, do you know what I mean? And plain sailing, understanding that you're gonna be okay, let's say, but there's a magic in the curiosity of what if it goes wrong or it going wrong, or having to be scrappy, having to navigate, like, or having to pivot. Yeah, there's there's an energy in that that is exciting, you know, and I think being in the messy middle is exciting as well, yeah, as it's nerve-wracking, as well as it can be comforting, yeah, you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:07

No, I agree because it's very much so the almost like the excitement of like what's next. Like it's wild because I'm like, God, I this was never me in a nine to five, but on a Sunday, I'm like, what's gonna happen this week? Exactly. Like, who's gonna email me? That's gonna be really fun and exciting, or like, you know, what customer DM am I gonna get? Like, that's gonna really ignite my day. And I feel like I'm gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:25

Or what video is gonna viral or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:27

Exactly. And I feel like we we um we spoke about this yesterday about um a founder who had exited, and I was like, what was it like when you exited your first company? And she she was just like underwhelming, yeah. And it and it was interesting because it is literally like it is the journey, like the journey is what's the exciting part. Like that is what it and it's like that classic saying of like it's the journey, not the destination. Yeah, and I feel like when you're in the messy middle, all you want is just that endpoint. But actually, once you've exited your company or whatever it is you've done, you've closed it down, you've pivoted, it's it's there almost it's that mindset of like, well, what next? Yeah, exactly. And then you dive straight into like another thing which is gonna have another messy middle. Like it's I I get it. I I don't think I I agree, I personally don't think the messy model ever ends.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:17

It just carries on. Yeah, and I've learned to sit in my everyday with Nimi and appreciate and watch and learn. And I I was in yoga the other day and the and the yoga teacher said, touch the stillness, and I was like, What? Or she said, touch the silence. I was like, that is incredible. So like I'm constantly touching the silence. Once again, touch ritual, I'm touching it all the time because I'm like, every time I hear the same thing, I've listened to podcasts, many podcasts of people exiting, making their money more, and then they go, Well, it's it's it's really underwhelming, like, yeah, great, I'm financially free and everything. But like, I the days where I was in the thick of my business, I loved, yeah, and that really made me thrive and happy or whatnot. Yeah, so yeah, it's the purpose-driven, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:04

It's it is doing something that that is that feels so purpose-led, and when you stop doing that, it's almost like okay, well, like, what's my purpose now? That I'm not like helping people or whatever it is that it is that you're doing. Um so a couple more questions and then we'll wrap up. If you don't want to finish honestly, no, neither. I just I could honestly, we could be here for hours. Um if you could go back to younger Alex, um I don't know, maybe Alex that gave up his acting career, or Alex who was just starting out learning how to formulate, you'd done done the course. What would you tell him?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:45

Do you know what? It's always those like um poignant moments in conversation. It's always reminds me of RuPaul Jagger. Like, what would you say to younger Alex?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:55

What would you tell him?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:56

I would I would honestly give him a hug and say and say, like, you you you have no idea the power of manifestation. You have no idea that the things that are going around in your mind right now are all gonna come true. Do you know what I mean? Like I read this book called I Can Change Your Life in Seven Days, and I urge everyone to read it by Paul McKenna.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:18

And I wrote in it, I'm gonna have a global skincare brand. I have a global skincare brand, and I wrote in that book, or I read that book when I was like 18, 19, and I was like, oh amongst other things, I said I was gonna be on X Factor. Actually, I was on the X Factor as well, so like that was another thing. Lol.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:34

I forgot about that one.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:36

Oh my god, yeah, I forgot that one. I didn't get through to the judges or anything like that, but I got clo very close. Um, anyway, and I was like, wow, like the power of manifestation, the power of likeness attracts likeness. Positive thinking. Hold on to the Alex. Like you what your brain is doing right now is gold. Yeah, and don't let that go. Don't falter and don't slip. That's what I'd say to him.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:58

Oh, I love that. I'd say continue.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:00

That childlike imagination that you have because you're only going to get older, you're not going to get younger. Yeah. But you can stay young in your mind forever. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:07

And it's that like.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:08

Oh my god, did I just say something really profound?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:10

You really did. Oh my god. I love it. It's gonna be a great soundbite. Um it is, it's so true. It's like that curiosity. Like, don't let that curiosity leave you. Because that's what's what's so magical. Yeah, it's magical, it's exciting, it's you know, it keeps things fresh and moving forwards. And no, it's beautiful. I think there's so much power in believing, thinking and believing.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:31

I've got it written on me. Believe.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:33

There we go.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:33

Never ever ever stop believing. Uh exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:37

And a lot of people say like the biggest fear we have is our dreams coming true, because how are we going to handle it, right? But like we sometimes limit ourselves, we put a block on how far that belief can. We put a ceiling. But if you look at, if you look at, and for instance, celebrities, if you look at how big or how high they can go, if if they can do it, so can you, because they were once you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:01

Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:02

So like never sealing your like kind of big vision or anything like that. Never ever block it. As soon as you put those blockets in, it blocks in. As soon as you say I can't or I don't know if that's gonna, I'm not, if you use that kind of language, you're blocking so much. And that energy is wanting you to get there. Yeah. And you will get there, no matter what that looks like for you, but you will get there if you project it.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:25

Oh, it's it's so true. It's so, so true. Beyond true. Because if you think, and if you take both our journeys back to the start, and if you know, younger us were to think, wow, like we're gonna have like a seven-figure brand, I can't do that. How am I gonna do that? Like, I'm not gonna be able to sell enough products, how am I gonna manufacture that? And it's all these like I can't, I can't, I can't. And so then it's like the universe will just mirror that. And it's like, okay, well, if you think you can't, then you're not gonna be able to, you won't. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:51

I'm a big believer in not saying the word I can't.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:54

If if you if you feel like you have to say something along those lines, I always say, I'm unable to do that right now, but I'm learning to get to do it, or I'm able to get to do it in the future, or something like that. Because you're not blocking, you're just putting maybe a pause on it or whatever. Yeah, but I can't. When I was a gymnastic coach and I used to teach kids, and I said, I can't do that, I can't do that. I said, Stop saying can't, can't will make you not do it. And one of my kids would always say, always say, I can't, can't, can't, and now they're in Cycle-Soleil. I was like, because I said, do not say you can't do it. You can do anything, the world is your oyster. You'll be able to do that backflip. They'll just a bit nervous.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:26

And I coached them out of it, and now they're in Cycle-Soleil.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:28

No, that's incredible. And it's it's literally the growth mindset. It's not I can't, it's I don't know how to do that yet, but I'm figuring it out. Yeah, I'm not sure. I will, I can do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:35

I can, I can.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:36

And and also it's like you need to almost like prove yourself wrong. It's like, well, if I've been able to do X, Y, and Z, then why can I not do A, B, and Z? So it's like that mindset shift. No, I'm I'm I'm obsessed with that. I love it. I love it. I'm taking it, I'm taking that into uh my life moving forwards. Um what's one thing that you're excited about right now? I mean, everything obviously, but and it can be business, it can be life, it can be.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:01

I'm really excited about my uh engagement to my partner Alex. Yes, who I'm obsessed with, and I just love the fact that his name's Alex.

Manifestation & meeting his fiancé

SPEAKER_00 1:09:09

I'm 100% manifested. Alex Squad. Well, we call ourselves the Alexes, but I 100% manifested him. I'm a big believer in manifestation. Um, no matter what or how you want to take manifestation, I am the biggest believer in it. And I said to myself, I kept on saying to myself, oh, I'm not worthy of lover, I'm not gonna meet anyone, it's not gonna happen for me. I just want to be single for the rest of my life. I kept on saying that. And I was meeting people that just the energy was off.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:34

And they were mirroring. They were mirroring, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:36

The universe was mirroring exactly what I was putting out there. So then one day I switched my narrative. It's one of my favourite sayings as well, switch a narrative. I switched it, I ran myself a bath, I'd done my whole everything, my whole ritual, candles were lit, I made a wish, put it out to the hocus pocus universe. I was living for the fantasy. I wrote down my dream guy, folded it up loads of times, put it underneath my pillow, put it underneath my bed, all that stuff, like my friend always told me to do. Um, and then I was like to my best friend Simon, I was like, Simon, I'm gonna start saying from now on, I'm worthy of love, and I'm gonna meet someone, and it's gonna be the best thing ever. And you know what? I'm gonna meet them at a house party. And you know what? I'm gonna date myself. Where did I meet Alex? At a house party. What's his name? Alex. So I was like, manifestation works if you truly put your soul and belief into it and do not falter in any way, shape, or possible. You just have to really put yourself and project yourself into that world.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:31

Trust.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:31

Trust the process, it's gonna happen. Met him at a house party and we've been together ever since.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:36

Oh my god, how long has that been?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:37

It's been three years, and I I proposed to him recently. I did. Yeah, and he's just my favourite person ever. I'm obsessed with him. Like we just lift each other up. We, you know, we just I just love him to pieces, and I'm really excited about our engagement. We're um I'm on constantly on cloud nine about it. I'm really excited about our um, you know, what the future can unhold for us, our wedding, just everything, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:59

It's a magical time. It is. Ugh, I'm obsessed.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:02

Wow, and I'm also obviously excited about the future of Nini. We've got some really fun things happening and some exciting changes.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:09

Tell me anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:10

Um, one big massive change, which is a big win for me in the cult, which I can't say just yet, but I you know it anyway. Stay tuned. You know it. Um, which hopefully should come to fruition soon, and then we'll be able to do a whole reveal about that, which will be

What's next for Nini Organics

SPEAKER_00 1:11:22

very fun. Um, but I'm very excited about the products that we've got coming and just like you know, the pop-ups and the experiences, and the inexperiences and everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:31

So I have one final question for

One piece of advice for founders

SPEAKER_01 1:11:33

you. What's one piece of advice that you would give someone who wants to start a brand?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:37

Oh, okay. So I was thinking about this the other day, and I was thinking, protect your imagination and ideas. Because if you're in a job that is a means to an end job, sometimes you might give some ideas to people, and they might take them, they might do whatever, or that company that you've given them ideas to might take it as if it's their own, but you are still at the what how should I say this? At like, you know, the the lowest of level in that company. You're not at the ranks up there, you're like kind of like just coasting on whatever it is, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:10

A cog.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:11

A cog. I'm I'm thinking about a certain experience that I went through with a company. And I just think obviously do it, be extremely authentic, but protect your imagination and protect your ideas. Only give it to when you've launched your business and put all those ideas into that business. Don't give them out freely or willy-nilly and know your cost and know your worth, is basically what I'd say.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:32

Because I was working for this company, I was bored one day, I drew on. Do you know what? I'm just gonna spill the tea on it. Spill the tea? Yes, you actually. I spill the tea because you know, I'm over it, but I just want people to know a little salty. I just want people to know that I created

The Pizza Pilgrims story

SPEAKER_00 1:12:46

it. Um, there's a pizza company called Pete's Pilgrims. Yeah. Name and names.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:50

I do know. Yes, and um please don't get a cease and desist for this.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:54

Well, I mean, I did it. There's proof that I did it.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:56

True.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:57

Um, I was bored one day and I drew a picture of Ariel on their pizza box. This is before they had major investment, and their pizza boxes were just brown, and we used to stamp them the Pizza Pilgrims. And I drew Ariel, went viral-ish, in viral terms at that time. And the founders loved it so much, they commissioned me to do five boxes that they put up in their shop, and then they commissioned me to again to do five more boxes to be in one of their little pop-ups. And then they um got investment, they got their pizza boxes made. I was now no longer with the company. Um, and when I say commission, like it wasn't that much that they paid me to be fair, for these amazing pieces of artwork, by the way. Yeah, and um, they then got their boxes and they pre-printed them, and it said, This is your pizza art box. Use my hashtag pizza artbox, and then they won awards for it, they opened up galleries of their pizza art boxes, and if you go into Pizza Pilgrims, you'll see the art on the boxes. And it was my idea, and I got nothing from it. I got no recognition, I got no thanks, I got no nothing from it.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:51

And they copied and pasted, they literally didn't even tweak your design, just straight up.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:55

No, no, it wasn't my design, it was my hashtag. Like they used the hashtag pizza artbox. I don't know if they still use it now, but when they did it, that's what I did when I posted the picture of Ariel. Oh my god. Or whatever it was, yeah. So I was just a bit like that's what I mean by protect your ideas, because I gave an idea to a company that was a huge USP for them at that moment. Yeah. I don't know if they still run with it now, because I don't go into the shop. I don't go in there.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:19

They're blacklisted.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:20

Yeah, from me. Um, but like those things like that, you know, at least or at least give credit to the people that actually have created for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:29

You know, and I think that's a shame. That's it's a shame that happens in in bigger companies. It happens all the time. They get so big that they just feel like we don't need to do that because we're so big. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:41

You know, even though that person who is helping them make the money, like you're working for them.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:47

It could change their life.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:48

It could change their life. If I would have got some recognition, if I would have got a thanks, if I would have even been pulled into their creative team, it would have been incredible. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:55

But everything happens for a reason. It does, everything happens for a reason, but I do also feel like that is like maybe happening more because I feel like that's it's a marketing moment as well for the brand. Because it could be like, you know, I could just see all these things that happen with big brands, like um, I don't know whether it was a real or not, but the Stanley Cup in the car that burnt down. I mean, apparently it's fake, but who knows?

SPEAKER_04 1:15:18

I don't know that.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:19

Um, it's like the the marketing off the back of that. I feel like that could have been such a cool, like, oh my god, like one of our employees has done this, and like we're bringing him into the creative team now. So, but anyway, like you say, everything for a reason. Everything for a reason. We couldn't have you stuck in Pizza Pilgrim's creative team. Like, you're you're better than that, babe. You're way better than that.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:38

I know, I never imagined. It was a fun, I did enjoy the job and I did enjoy doing it, but like give me the credit that I was yeah that I was due because I gave you that idea.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:46

I do totally agree. And so, um, on that on that bombshell, how can people

Where to find Alex

SPEAKER_01 1:15:52

find you?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:53

Oh my god, well, you can find me by sitting here and I'm missing myself with the rose gorgeous. Do you want some? Get some rose, honey. So you can stun it. I know I love this mist so much. So you can find us on obviously online, miniorganics.com. Um, we're on Instagram. We've just kind of tickled into the TikTokers. Um we're on we're on YouTube as well. Um and I've got a little podcast called Beyond the Formula as well. So you can find us in there as well. Um, so yeah, and you'll be on my podcast as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:23

Yes, stay tuned. Stay tuned.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:25

The the roles will be reversed.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:27

I can't wait. I can't wait. It will be great. Well, thank you so much for being here today. And um, yeah, I look forward to all the exciting things that you're pulling up.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:36

Thank you.