They Ran a £30K Scam on My Business. Here's What I Didn't See Coming.

What happens when your business is falling apart at the same time your personal life is too?

In this episode of Perls of Wisdom, I sit down with Ramona, founder of Rani & Co, for one of the most candid conversations we’ve had yet.

From building a feminist slogan clothing brand to pivoting into jewellery, Ramona opens up about the realities of entrepreneurship that rarely make it onto Instagram. The messy decisions, the moments where the business feels like it’s crumbling, and the pressure of having to keep going when life doesn’t pause just because you’re a founder.

We talk about navigating a fresh breakup in the middle of Black Friday, leaning on your team when things feel impossible, and the emotional weight that comes with building something people assume is “successful” from the outside.

But this conversation goes far deeper than business.

Ramona shares what it was really like going through one of the darkest periods of her life, rebuilding after major setbacks, managing intense anxiety, and dealing with family challenges while still showing up as a founder.

This is the side of entrepreneurship people don’t talk about enough.

The toll, the pressure, the identity tied up in your business and the uncomfortable truth that growth often looks nothing like the polished version we see online.

If you’re in the thick of building something right now, feeling overwhelmed, questioning your next move, or just needing a reminder that you’re not the only one figuring it out as you go, this episode is for you.

Topics we cover:
 ✨ Building Ronnie & Co and the pivot from clothing to jewellery
 ✨ Breakups and building a business at the same time
 ✨ Founder anxiety, burnout, and mental health
 ✨ Rebuilding after business setbacks
 ✨ Team culture and leadership during hard seasons
 ✨ The emotional reality of entrepreneurship
 ✨ Why growth can feel scarier as your business gets bigger

Perls of Wisdom is the podcast all about the messy middle of building a business, with honest conversations from founders who are still in it.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you follow Perls of Wisdom, so you never miss a conversation about what it really takes to build a business.

This podcast is all about the messy middle. The part nobody talks about. The lessons, mistakes, and breakthroughs that happen while you are still figuring it out.

If this episode helped you, I would love it if you could share it with a founder friend or tag me on social media so I can see you are listening.

You can find me here:
 Instagram: @itsisobelperl
LinkedIn: Isobel Perl
YouTube: Isobel Perl
Website: perlsinbusiness.com

If there is a founder you would love me to interview, or a topic you want covered, send me a message. I read more than you would think.

And remember:

You do not need to feel ready; you just need to decide to start.

Love Isobel x

Transcript

Intro & Meet Ramona, Founder of Ronnie and Co

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Honestly, the business was a hot mess. As the brand grows, I'm not gonna lie, I get more nervous about it. Your business is crumbling. It's a horrible, horrible place to be. I can't even tell you how bad it was. It was such a dark place. I didn't think I was gonna get out of it. It was hell.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Welcome to Pearls of Wisdom, the podcast where we talk all about the messy middle of starting a business. Today I have on Ramona, the founder of Rani Co., which is a feminist empowerment jewellery brand, which actually started as a feminist slogan clothing brand, but I will let her tell you all about the story in this episode. As always, don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe. And let me know in the comments below if there are any founders that you would like me to have on because I have a feeling there's gonna be a season two. So I'm here today with Ramona, the founder of Rani Co. Thank you so much for being here today.

The Most Chaotic Thing This Week: Running a Business Through a Breakup

SPEAKER_01 1:05

So I want to open up with what's the most chaotic thing that's happened this week or last week?

SPEAKER_02 1:12

What a great first question. So the most chaotic thing that's happened is actually it's quite a personal thing, but I don't see many people talking about it, many people who have a business. It's actually um I am going through a breakup, which is very fresh. It's only happened a couple of weeks ago. And I have Black Friday this week. My Black Friday starts, it's not happened at a good time. No, it's not happened, it never happens at good times. It never happens at good times, but this week is so like crucial for the business, and it's just um I mean in some ways it's good because I'm distracted with work, but also like I've had to take a bit of time off. But I'm so lucky that my team have been so supportive. I wasn't sure whether telling them my situation was professional, but I told them, and that yeah, it's it's a it's a thing that's so relatable to so many people, and they've been so supportive. They're like, Don't worry, Romania, like we will take extra work if we need us to, and they're doing it. Oh, amazing.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Oh, I'm sorry to hear about your breakup. I'm sure we'll delve more into it later because I think, like you say, it's an important thing. Like a lot of we were saying our founders are. I mean, I'm very single, but some founders I know have been in very long-term relationships, and we never hear people talking about dating while they're founding. Yeah, yeah, it's a building. It's a ball game, it's a part.

What Is Ronnie and Co? The Brand Story

SPEAKER_01 2:32

So, for anyone who hasn't heard of Rani and Co., can you give us a quick elevator pitch, please?

SPEAKER_02 2:37

Yes, so Rani and Co. We sell storytelling jewellery that reminds women of their inherent power in a world that often challenges it. So, our core value is feminism, and I have strong feminist beliefs. So, a lot of our collections um are goddess themed. We've got the Animal Quendom collection, which celebrates animals that live in a matriarchy, and then we have our healing crystal, so they're all very empowerment themes. Um, yeah, and it's just a really, really beautiful business which we just bring women together and they share their stories behind why they buy the jewellery, and it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

And the jewellery is gorgeous as well.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

Thanks.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Very, very well designed and well made, and I've got lots of questions to ask you about it.

Why Ramona Always Knew She'd Be a Founder

SPEAKER_01 3:23

But take me back to the early days. At what point did you decide I'm gonna be a business owner? I'm gonna do this.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

I think I already always knew I was going to be a business owner from a young age. Tell me more. Because I didn't like being told what to do, which I hated it, I hated it, um, and I didn't really enjoy school. Um, I didn't understand the education system because I'm a creative, I'm an artist, and it just kind of boxes you into one kind of thing, and it didn't make sense to me. Um, and it's always how I envisioned myself when I was older. Um, but I knew that I really wanted to start a business. Um, it was so after university, I did accounting and finance at uni. The least creative. It was so boring. Yeah, and I was not good at it. Um so then after university, I went into marketing for five years. Wow, different types of marketing. Um, and like, yes, marketing, I found it so interesting, but the companies I was working for, I just found it so boring, and I was like, I have to start my own thing. Like, I was like, there has to be more to life. Like I was at work miserable, I would go to the toilets and just cry because I was like, this there has to be more to life. Um, and I came up with all these different ideas. I was gonna turn my parents' business into a laser hair removal clinic.

SPEAKER_03 4:47

They were like, Absolutely not, do not touch our business. What is their business?

SPEAKER_02 4:51

They are both dentists, yeah. So their dental practice. I was like, I'm gonna convert it into something. They're like, No, that's our practice. No, no, staying is a dental practice, and then I was like, I'm gonna go into property, and I was like, Mum and dad, we're gonna we're gonna release equity on the house.

SPEAKER_03 5:05

Again, they were like, absolutely not, who do you think you are? Like, mum and dad, we're all doing this together.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

I was but I was just so desperate and had all these different ideas, like an Amazon drop shipping and all of this, um, but nothing was sticking, and it wasn't until I came up with the idea of Rani and Co, I'm like, this is it, like it just really like lit me up, and I became so obsessed with the idea of it. I was like, this needs to become a reality.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

Yeah, I'm obsessed.

From Clothing Brand to Jewelry: The Pivot That Changed Everything

SPEAKER_01 5:32

And the first business wasn't jewellery. No, so talk to me more about that.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

I mean, they say that a lot of first businesses fail. Um, so Rani Co. started as a clothing brand, a feminist slogan clothing brand. Um and it was I started it because Dior brought out their viral t-shirt at the time, which said we should all be feminists, and this was 2017, and it was literally all over the internet. And then you got the big um fast fashion brands like Miss Guider, they came up came up with their own t-shirts like Girl Gang, Girl Club, and I was like, Oh, this is such a cheap and commercialised form of feminism. And I was like, actually, I've always had this gratitude towards the fact that these this in this day and age, mod like women can do pretty much anything, yeah. Um and it's the women who have fought for our rights who have given us everything that we have today. So I've always had an appreciation for that. And I was like, actually, I want to celebrate those women because we've we're not taught about these women at school, we forget about them, like the Ruth Bader Ginsburg, the Frida Carlos, and so on. So I started um slogan Tots were so in at that time. I remember I yeah, so I started a feminist slogan clothing brand, and it just it didn't, it didn't work. Um I wasn't good at designing clothing, and there were feminists that I don't think people a lot of people actually knew who these feminists were, which I found so sad. Um, but then when you had to educate the audience about something, it makes the business a lot harder. Um I was selling bits of wholesale jewellery as part of the brand, so this was wholesale jewelry from China that was my mum's idea. She's like, Why don't you do jewellery? I was like, I don't know, it doesn't really go with the brand. But I was like, let's just give it a go. And honestly, the business was a hot mess. Like, I was doing feminist slogan clothing with like star jewelry, like none of it made sense, but the jewellery was selling more and it was more profitable. Interesting. So I was like, okay, there's something in this. Um, and then I was with a friend that I was helping my friend was helping me at the time, and he was like, You need to make this into a jewelry brand, otherwise you don't have a business. So I just pivoted. I was really stubborn about it at first. I was like, no, it's gonna be clothing, it's gonna work. Three years it wasn't working, so I was like, this needs to change. Um, and then I became a jewellery business, and I literally just like skyrocketed like every year. So yeah, it's very oh I love that.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

And what did you learn from that pivot? Did you were there any mode marks?

SPEAKER_02 8:07

Yeah, one you have to adapt as a business person. If something's not working, you need to understand why. If the customer does not want to buy your product, they do not want to buy your product, um, and it's just not good enough. Yeah, and you can't be stubborn, you can't be stubborn, so hard, but you can't, and it's hard because you might like the product, but it's the customer that's the important bit. Um, and also when you start a business, it's better to start with a really strong niche or like one hero product. Yes. I was starting with a range of products, and then I even started doing phone cases and wall art, and I'm like, this is becoming so diluted, it was so confusing. And um, you can't do that, you need to come up with a really strong product to begin with, um, and then expand on that.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

Yeah, yeah. And what was the first product you then kind of launched with with Rani and K when you made that pivot? Were you or was it a slow journey? Did it go from like wholesaling from China to then designing it all?

SPEAKER_02 9:05

It was wholesaling from Gi from China, yeah. But in 2020 I designed my first piece, I think it was actually this ring that I'm wearing now, the Moonstone teardrop ring, and five years later it's still a bestseller. But it's such an easy, simple design, it's gorgeous. Um but now my designs are a lot more intricate because I have an idea of how to design stuff now. But when I started, it was just a really quick sketch, photoshopping stuff together and sending it to a manufacturer.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

And how did you learn all of those skills? I think you just learn on the job on the job.

SPEAKER_02 9:38

Accounting and finance didn't give you those skills. Oh, it gave me nothing. Like I I hire an accountant now, I I can't do my accounts. Um you just learn your YouTube, you Google, everything, all the knowledge you want is literally free. So you need to make the most of it.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

Yeah, it's true, it's so true. It's all it's all at your fingertips. It's just having the having the sort of um what's the word I'm looking for, initiative to go out there and go looking for and to be quite uh inquisitive as well and question things for sure. Exactly, exactly.

Social Media Strategy: TikTok vs Instagram

SPEAKER_01 10:11

So I wanna switch over to a bit of social media now. You're a certified social media queen. So I'm I'm certifying you as a social media queen.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

Oh, okay. Certified from the certified at home.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

So talk to me about sort of the way you run your social media and the storytelling behind it. Like, where does that all come from?

SPEAKER_02 10:34

I wish I had like a really strong social media strategy, but I kind of I kind of don't because I feel like I don't really have time. So I run the social media. How do I go about it? It's different for TikTok and Instagram. Yeah, Instagram have more of a strategy, TikTok is a lot more fun, a lot more authentic, and storytelling works so well on TikTok. So for me, storytelling is the story behind why customers buy our jewellery because on their orders they often leave little notes, and it's so sweet, and it's often stories about like women going through IVF and they're going through lots of rounds. Those women often buy like a goddess jewelry piece or our trust the timing necklace. Or you know, women going through divorces, breakups, but also women getting their dream jobs and finally having like the rainbow baby, like really beautiful stories, and then I create content from that. I love that. With Instagram, I set pillars so I have five pillars or four pillars, which is promotion, education, entertainment, and I can't remember the other one, but uh under each pillar there will be like for promotional that could be like uh influencer content or product focused content, education will be talking about like a feminism or educating about a manufacturer. Yeah. Um, entertainment is the fun stuff, like reposting high-performing uh content from TikTok onto Instagram. Um so that's how I go about Instagram, but they both do have different strategies.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

I hate it now because back in the day it was just whatever went on Instagram, throw up TikTok, and vice versa, and now it's like their own ecosystems, they they need tending to in their own ways.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

Because TikTok is more for brand awareness and then Instagram's more for sales, yes. So like I don't s get a lot of website traffic from TikTok. I used to, I don't anymore. I'm finding TikTok really difficult.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

We're finding it we're finding it a struggle, it's changed, it's always changing so much. And I think if you don't prioritize selling through TikTok, it's difficult. And do you sell much through TikTok shop? No.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

Are you on there? I am on it in June, July. I started focusing on it for literally like a month. Oh, yeah, of course. You were doing all your lives, yes, and then um I noticed that a lot of people who buy from TikTok return products. And I I don't get this on my website, so I'm like the customer's very different on TikTok, and I was just like, I just don't know if I really want to do this to be honest. I agree. So, and with TikTok live, you have to keep discounting your products, and it's for the brand, I don't think it's a the best strategy.

Why Being the Face of Your Brand Matters

SPEAKER_01 13:25

No, I agree, I agree, and it's the customer, it's a very impulse purchase, and for a product that is like a considered buy, like something that's not a £10, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 13:37

Yeah, because my price point is a lot higher, so yeah, TikTok's a it's a strange one. I can't, I don't think I've quite figured out I feel like you think you've figured it out, literally, and then something changes like oh I I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

I have no idea, literally, but having said that, I feel like you've had a lot of viral moments through Instagram and TikTok. Was there any particular moment that you can recall where you were like, This this has changed things for me?

SPEAKER_02 14:01

It was my first viral TikTok in 2021, I think it was March. It was a video of me packing an order of a customer's 16th order. This customer has now ordered from me, I think, 65 times. Oh holy shit. Yeah, and she's based in the US as well, which is crazy. So it was these moonstone earrings that I had, which have actually discontinued now, and I I filmed myself packing this order, and it just I think I got like 1.2 million views or something. And um, like the orders just started coming in. I got I think maybe like 50 orders in 24 hours when you're a small business. You're like, oh my god, this is amazing.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

Literally didn't even do that in a month, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

Exactly. And then that is the video video that catapulted the business's growth, and that yeah, I hit my first 100 grand in revenue, which is such an exciting time for business owners. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

Um, and yeah, it was just because of TikTok. Amazing, yeah. It's been a very powerful tool for small businesses, especially those that got started COVID or pre-COVID. I feel like getting started on TikTok now is probably a different story, but it is a bit more difficult, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

Yeah, it is. But I think once you crack what kind of content works, then it is easier, but it's it's always changing now, it's so fast as well.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

I know, like videos that would do well, like a lot of don't do well, yeah. I agree. Yeah, in terms of your content and you showing up as a founder, I'd say you're very present, you're very confident. So for anyone listening who is like, I need to show up online more, I need to show my face. Do you have any tips for them to show up as hard? Because I don't know about you, but when I first started, I was like, This is cringe. Do you look back at videos of yourself and you're like, Who is that? Like so unexpressive, so quiet.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

Yeah, no, because I I don't know why, but my 2020 videos on TikTok are like recirculating, and I'm getting people liking them and commenting. I'm obsessed, and I'm like, this is so embarrassing. Like, why are these videos still going round? They're awful. It's like me pointing to a screen.

SPEAKER_03 16:05

You're literally like the ones where you're like that, yeah. I know. Literally, um I it's just practice.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

Yeah, I don't sometimes I wonder like, do you actually need to be showing your face as a business owner? I think it can really help and it can really grow your business, but then you see so many great brands where you don't actually know the business owner. So that's true, but then I think there needs to be a strategy if you're not gonna be the face of your brand. And I've also noticed it's a lot of women who are the face of the brand, and not a lot of men, and I'm not sure why.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

I feel like in a weird way, women do have it better as being founders, because I feel like, and oh, I hope I don't get cancelled for saying this, but I always see it circulating online about being like pretty attractive female founders, and like there's this one video I remember I can remember from a woman I can't even remember who she was though, and she's like, if you are a female founder and you are pretty, yeah, get your face out there. Literally, that is your selling point.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

It's annoying, but like it works, yeah, and it's like a really rubbish thing to say, but like there are certain privileges out there. Um so but yeah, I think if you are nervous about getting your face on screen, I think you just have to take it in baby steps, but just do it, practice, yeah, just do it. Um you don't even need to post it, just like let it sit in your drafts. Um and like I just I think a lot of the worry comes from what people will think of you.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

I think that's the biggest thing, is it, isn't it? It's actually take a moment to think why is it that I'm feeling nervous to post online? Is it because I don't feel confident or is it because I'm maybe worried about what other people might think? And if it's that you're worried about what other people might think, then you need to scrap that attitude because you're never gonna get far in life worrying about what other people think. And it's that fantastic quote where it's like those that matter won't care, and those that care don't matter. So, like people nearest and dearest to you, they're just gonna support you and they're gonna want the best for you. And if that means liking and sharing your cringe videos online, yeah, that's what they're gonna have to do.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

Well, yeah, just cringe until it works, exactly. And I saw a quote as well, which is the cost of success is embarrassment. Yes, and it's that one.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

It's true, it's true, it literally is true, it's true. I was so embarrassing at the start, I was so cringe when those old videos recirculate. I'm like, did I really put that online?

SPEAKER_02 18:35

But it's also like, what is there to be embarrassed about? You're just someone who's just trying to follow their dreams, there's nothing embarrassing about it. Absolutely not. You have one life, you have one shot at this, like just do just make it the life that you want to live.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

Yeah, and people find it embarrassing because I feel like they know they will never have the confidence to do it, so they're finding a way, they're finding a reason to do it. Yeah, amazing. I love that. Thank

Feminism as a North Star — and Losing Your Voice as You Grow

SPEAKER_01 18:59

you. So you talk a lot about feminism and how that's been like the north star of the brand. Um, how has your personal identity changed as you've kind of grown the brand?

SPEAKER_02 19:12

This is really interesting, actually. So I have strong feminist beliefs, but I do feel like sometimes you have to be careful what you say online. Feminism can be a bit of a minefield, you can very easily say the wrong thing, and as the brand grows, I'm not gonna lie, I get more nervous about it. And it's such a shame because this is what my value is, and this is what I stand for, but then there are certain topics I'm like, I don't know if I should be talking about this. Wow. So, and I was talking to my merchandising consultant on Monday, and she was like, Ramona, I think you need to be more outspoken again and like really stick to your values because this is what's gonna attract the right people. So I think I have kind of gone a little bit more quiet on the feminist feminism side, which is such a shame. But I need to like find my voice again because when I started the business, I had a really strong feminist voice, and I would talk about a lot of topics, and I think this happens as a long of as a lot of businesses grow. It's easy to really start with a mission, but as it grows, because you're like, actually, I need to hit certain targets, it's so easy to like dilute your brand message. Um and I've caught myself doing that a few times, like Ramona, this is not why I started the business. So, like this year, um, because we support a domestic violence charity called Solace, so I actually went to go visit one of the refugees. Um yeah, so and the whole point of that was to like remind myself why I'm doing this and listen to the women's stories who had run away from domestic violence to understand like how I can help them. Yeah. Because I always say, like, yes, jewellery is beautiful, but it's not gonna change the world. So with the businesses like donating to charities, that can that's how we help and educate people about these kind of topics. And hopefully, this year I'm gonna be donating for their Christmas party because one of the things the charity said is that the Christmas party is really important because the women just want to feel normal again, yeah. Um, and they're always struggling with donations, so we're gonna be donating towards that. I love that, and then they're like, come along to the party. I'm like, how lovely! Yeah, so um I wanna I wanna keep talking about feminism, and I just need to kind of find my voice again because I'm also like I started this incredible brand. Some of these women look up to me. I don't want to be the one person who loses their voice.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

Yes, and it it's hard online, isn't it? Because you're so worried about, especially when you start growing a platform, yeah, saying the wrong thing or upsetting someone. But I think fundamentally, like, there is always gonna be someone out there that's just gonna take it. In the wrong way, do you know what I mean? It's like it's still with dating, like they have that saying where it's like you could be the juiciest peach in the world, yeah, and there is gonna be someone out there who just doesn't like peaches, and like it's yeah, as long as what you're saying is coming from a place of like authenticity, yeah. I think I think there's power in that. Like, and I I I know you you would never say something online that was like supposed to be misconstrued or like wrong or rude, and I think sometimes controversy is it's a good engagement driver if it's done in the right way, if that makes sense, from a place of like you know, from like a pure place, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

It's hard, it's hard. It is tricky, but then I see so many incredible feminist influences, and I'm like, Oh I love them, they're so strong and outspoken. I'm like, I just I just need to find my voice again.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

You will, yeah,

Designing Jewelry with Meaning: The Pressure of a Best-Selling Collection

SPEAKER_01 22:50

you will. And talking about sort of um the feminism and the power of the community, when when you design the pieces that carry a message, do you kind of feel the responsibility of conveying that message? Like, how how does that affect you?

SPEAKER_02 23:05

So, whenever I design something, I always think how what is what is the message behind this piece, and what will the customer feel like when they wear this piece? So I always think of that when I'm designing something, yeah. Um, and sometimes I just have this really beautiful idea in my head or of of a design, and I'm like, oh, but it has no message behind it, so I don't think that's gonna work. And I'm like, okay, I just part of that to the side. Um but yeah, so every piece I design it has to have some sort of message behind it. I think the goddess collection is so powerful at doing that, um, and even designing for next year. I want to come up with some new stuff, but I'm always thinking about how how would the wearer feel when they wear this.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

And do you feel the pressure of I guess I the goddess collection was so successful? Yeah. Do you feel the pressure of creating more collections that are just as successful?

SPEAKER_02 23:57

Yes, and that's a really I find this really hard. So, like last year I launched my Hindu goddess collection, and I've never seen something sell as well as that in my business. It was like even now, a year over a year later, it's just constantly selling out, um, and it's incredible. But I think a lot of business owners can relate to this. When they make something that's a bestseller, it actually puts pressure on you to make something just as good. Yeah. Because I've been launching stuff, I'm like, nothing has really hit that mark, like that collection. And I'm trying to figure out what do I need to do, and I'm struggling actually to figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

So I also do feel like as well, and I saw um do you know Alice from Mile Off? She did a really good post about she has a running back, um, a running brand, and she did a post about um, she's recently launched, like comparing each of her launches, yeah, and it was really interesting because there's also so many nuances in terms of like what was actually happening in the world in 2024 when you launched it, what was going on on social media, like we've had the tariffs come out, like spending's gone down, and so I think sometimes it's easy to be like, oh, this hasn't performed as well, yeah. But actually, it we're not comparing like apples for apples because there's you know, things were different back then. So I think it's also like just for your like peace of mind to be like it might not be the case that things aren't performing as well, it's just that the the timing and the way the world is now, those are having impacts.

SPEAKER_02 25:26

Because sometimes I've launched a product and it's been very slow to start, and then months later it picks up because it's like summer or something like that. Exactly, seasonality, exactly. So sometimes it is tricky to understand.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

Um but yeah, yeah, you just have to keep moving forwards. You do, yeah, yeah. And I think as well, but like a really for me, like a big guiding um like star for me for want of another word, is that you might not have released the thing that you're gonna be known for. Do you know what I mean? So like the goddess collection came in 2024, you've been going since 2017, yeah. So like there might be more things in the future, you just haven't you just haven't made it yet.

SPEAKER_02 26:07

This is the thing, I think you can literally be one product away from going viral and like yeah, like it's crazy. It's exciting, and like some people get it right the first time. Like, I I love talking about odd muse, I love odd muse. We love it.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

Started with the viral jacket, the blazer, like good product market fit, good amount of exposure. Lorna Lux wore it, like yeah, things just align.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

But I feel like when you do find that perfect product, things do just align. Yeah, like dating, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:40

Oh well, right. I'm weaving way too much dating into this.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

So um, I guess talking about the sort of empowerment string that we've been talking about throughout, running a business can be really tough on your psyche, on your mental health. How have you kind of dealt with the setbacks, the knockbacks, the difficult times?

SPEAKER_02 27:03

Oh my god, it's it's horrible. It's really hard, especially when you're a sole founder and everything relies on you. Sometimes I'm like, I wish I had a co-founder. Me too. It's so hard because your team relies on you, your whole livelihood is literally on you. Um, it's hard. It's oh my god, like I feel like I'm going through that at the moment, and I think it's important one to take time out a hundred percent. Yeah, you can't just keep going if you know that you're burning out.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

I've done that and it doesn't work, exactly. And that's the worst thing you can do. And I think as a founder, sometimes you can feel like you were saying the whole business relies on me. I can't possibly take a day off, but actually flip that narrative. The whole business relies on you if you are not performing at your peak, exactly, your business isn't gonna be performing either.

SPEAKER_02 27:53

And like, yes, if you want to take a week or two off, yes, your sales might slow down, but the the business is still

Business Finances, Funding & the Art of Bootstrapping

SPEAKER_02 28:00

gonna be there.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

This is what I still struggle with. Yes, and it's important actually, to know what my business coach always says, you need to take time away from the business because you need to know what works and what doesn't. If you are always there doing things, you're never gonna know that your systems are working and your processes are doing right and your team know what they're doing. Yeah, if you actually take a step out for like a week, if things are still working, great. If things fall to the floor, what's happened and how do we fix it for next time? So it's actually important to do it as well, not just for your yourself, but for the business.

SPEAKER_02 28:31

Well, yes, exactly. So now my team like Rony needs to build a team because yeah, I've been a working, taking time off over the past two weeks, and it's affected a lot of things. They're like, you need to future proof your business, and next year I'm hoping to hire more. Amazing, but then when it does feel like your business is crumbling, it's a horrible, horrible place to be in. I've been in it multiple times. Everything that's great on social media, behind the scenes, I'm like, I don't think I'm doing a good job. Um, or like you have really slow periods and you're like crap, like how am I gonna pay for this thing and pay for that thing? Yeah, um but I think I think what's really helped me is having a plan, like literally writing down a plan, writing down your revenue goals and literally thinking, working backwards, like how am I gonna reach that? Reverse engineer, and it could be like you've done a sale in the past and that's worked really well, or limited edition something, they always do well, just to get those like quick sales in.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

Yeah, it's just uh having a strategy. It definitely is, and I think it's interesting as well because before I came into this year, I was very like, we don't want to be a discount brand, I don't want to do sales. Like I even remember um Lucy Hitchcock for the longest time didn't even have a discount to sign up to her newsletter. Really? She was like so anti-giving away discounts, which and I totally get it, but this year obviously we've been forced to do like heavy discounts because of the rebrand. Yeah, and I had a call with my business coach today, and she was like, What are your thoughts on like sales now? And I was like, Well, I still don't really want to like be a discount brand. And she's like, the thing is that when you are bringing people in, and I think this is the way that I look at it, and maybe you as well. From when we started, it was so built organically. Yeah, everyone found us through social media, everyone had followed the story, everyone kind of knew what was going on. Whereas now we're at a place where we had run ads, and so Ellis was like to me, someone who's seen an ad from three weeks ago is not gonna know that last month you also ran a sale. Like, so I think it's also like the narrative that we tell ourselves in our brain about offering discounts and sales because sometimes it's that's a low-hanging fruit, like you've had people come in to buy something, and if it's gonna take giving them 15-20% off to buy again, that's still cheaper than going out to acquire a new customer, and so it's almost like you have to get really like detailed and numbersy about it all as well.

SPEAKER_02 30:53

I think it is literally probably the only the luxury brands that don't do discounts, but they have such strong brand presence when you're a small business, it's a lot harder.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

100%. And so you just mentioned about a few times where you've really been through it and thought, wow, like everyone on the outside isn't gonna know what's happening right now. Can you take me through any of those times?

SPEAKER_02 31:17

Yeah, I mean, one is this year, or like this period, it's been like I've had friends coming up to be like, You're doing so well, Ramona. I'm like, I am crying every day.

SPEAKER_01 31:26

It's so funny, isn't it? How things seem online. And there's a really fine balance I find between crying all the time online because you also don't want to be like, oh, woe is me. Yeah, it's such a balance. But yeah, tell me about this year, what's been happening?

SPEAKER_02 31:41

This year's just been a hard year, I think, for a lot of businesses. The tariffs, um, I've noticed spending patterns have completely changed with UK customers. So now we're doing ads in the US and Canada. Um, it's been a weird year. It's been a weird year of the snake. Yes, I've I saw this on Instagram.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

I saw you liking the post. Honestly, everyone I'm talking to, I'm like, it's the year of the snake. We're shedding, we're shedding, we're giving all we're being given all of the challenges, yeah,

Hiring Mistakes and What She'd Do Differently

SPEAKER_01 32:10

so that we can learn and grow, shed the skin, and next year we move into the year of the horse. Yes, I saw this as well. I'm ready for this. I'm ready for this.

SPEAKER_02 32:19

Yeah, oh yeah. Um well, I think this year I also have hired not very well. It's my first time hiring. I don't know what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

Tell me about that. I feel like people will be really interested in the first hire.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

I think I rushed into it because I was so desperate, and um I don't think I was clear enough on what I was looking for because I was trying to offload social media because it's it's so time consuming for me, but that's actually my strong point. Yeah, and I should have offloaded the stuff that the admin stuff I get stuck doing every day. Yes. So now I'm looking into getting maybe a VA, a virtual assistant. Um so they can just do the admin stuff, and I can have space in my brain for the creative work. Um because at the moment I have by the time I've done all the admin stuff, I have no creativity left. Yeah, and then that like that's this is why I started the business. So yeah, it doesn't make sense, but I think yeah, I just haven't hired very well this year. Um but I I it's it's a learning curve, like I know what to do next year now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

I think hiring is it's so tough because I feel like if someone is like really passionate and good, yeah, the likelihood of them wanting to then go and do their own thing is probably like very high. Do you know what I mean? Like I maybe that's just my thought process on it.

SPEAKER_02 33:39

Lots of people tell me that your first high should be entrepreneurial and they should really just want to use their initiative and get stuck in everything. But I'm the same, like, but then wouldn't they just go and start their own thing? Like, why would they want to do that?

SPEAKER_01 33:52

You need a very strong contract in place that they can't I've heard I have heard a lot of people be um screwed over. Not necessarily in like product product-based business is probably different because to actually start a product-based business is a lot. But I know people in service-based, like creative industries, like um marketing, where employees have gone and set up their own like competitor agency and you need, yeah, very strong like contracts in place to say like non-compete, you can't go set up something similar. But I do agree, I think you need a first hire, you definitely need someone who's got initiative. I think you it's more time for you to constantly be answering questions from someone rather than someone just go away, try and figure it out, come to you and be like, I've tried to look for the answer, I can't find it. Or so I think it's oh it's yeah, it's a funny one. But I'm such a believer of like you put it out in the universe and it'll come. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 34:51

That's the thing, like the team I have now are amazing, and they approached me, and um at the time I was really looking for someone in their position as well. Like it's so weird, so I'm kind of like it's I think I always I do attract the right people at the right time. Yes, and we will do the same with dating.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

Oh, we will couldn't help myself, couldn't help myself. It is it's so true. All of my all of my team I found through um like it all happened by chance, yeah, and I've been so lucky. Like my entire team have just been like like self-starters, crack on with it, like sometimes to the point where I'm like, maybe you should just run that by me quickly. Like, I love that you're taking the initiative here, but maybe just ask me as well. Yeah, um, so I think it is like one of those like you put it out to the universe and it will land on you. Talk me through your team. Who have you got?

SPEAKER_02 35:43

It's a very small team. So I have my fulfillment center, I have my email marketer, and I have a merchandiser consultant who I just started working with.

SPEAKER_01 35:53

Amazing.

SPEAKER_02 35:53

And a content strategist who makes the creatives for ads. So I set up the ads and then she does the creatives. Yeah. Um, but they all have like years of experience. They're all they're all just they're just great. I love working with them. I feel like we're friends, which is so nice.

SPEAKER_01 36:09

It's nice to be able to have that sort of relationship. And feel a bit less solo foundery. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, yeah, okay, all the decisions you're making, but at least you've got people that you can be like, do you think this is the right choice? Like they know the business, like sense check.

SPEAKER_02 36:24

Yeah, some of these people have 15 years experience, they're all contractors they work with, and they just know much more than me. So I'm like, can you just go and do this? And they're like, fine.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

I'm like, God, great. And that's the thing. I think something we also need to learn as founders is that we are not going to be good at everything. Yes. I think obviously when you get started, we have to do everything, especially when you do it scrappy and you start with like very minimal um investment. But as you grow, it's that mindset of being like, I actually don't have to do this all. Like what I'm not good at, I actually it's more important for me to get someone else to do it. And it's like um Leila Hormosy said this as well, like in like a video, and she was like, if you are charging your time out at like a hundred dollars an hour, but you're spending two hours cleaning your apartment when you could pay someone fifty dollars an hour, why are you doing that? Like, you don't need to be cleaning your apartment, and I think it's like thinking about your time in that way, where actually, what what am I good at? What am I not good at? And like what you mentioned earlier, where you're so good at the social media side of things, but confused it because it was taking

Building the Right Team & Knowing Your Zone of Genius

SPEAKER_01 37:30

up so much time that you were like, get rid. Yeah, but actually, it's like even if it's time consuming but it moves the needle and it generates you sales. We keep that, do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 37:39

I think we as explaners we get so busy doing stuff that we probably don't need to do just because we're doing it, it's true, and I think so there have been so many businesses that started around the same time as us, and I feel like some have grown so fast, and and I know it's because I've been so much slower at hiring a team and they've been a lot faster at it, um, and it's just the way it is.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

Yeah, I feel the same, and but again, back to the whole everything happens for a reason. Yeah, and I had a call um this morning, and I think it's also very um you also need to figure out what you want from your business as well. So, like, yeah, we see these businesses that started at the same time and they're turning over like tens of millions and they have these huge teams, but is that what we actually really want? Because like, no, I don't want that. I actually love having my my 10 part-timers, and you know, I like to know that we're gonna do X amount of I don't know, 40-50k in revenue, and we've got some profit from that, and have it just as a nice lifestyle business that then allows me to do other things, yeah, rather than be like, we need to hit 100k, we're gonna do anything that we can do to get there, let's get investors on board, and then it becomes an entirely different beast. And so I think sometimes there's that comparison. Um, you know, we look like I love to compare myself at other businesses. I think we all do it, but it's like, you know, their end goal might be exit and sell for X amount of money. Yeah, my end goal is just have a nice lifestyle business that plods along for a while, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:13

I think, yeah, I've I've been asking myself the same questions. I think in my 20s, I was like, yeah, I want like a 100 million pound business, and now that I'm in my 30s and getting towards my mid-30s, I'm like, I just want a happy, peaceful life and a comfortable life. A soft life. I do want to hit the million pound revenue mark, and I know I can do it. It's so doable. I know I can do it. You must be so close. No, not not so close. Like last year we did half a mil, so we we've but you can double revenue in a year, you haven't done it before. Cumulatively, though, you're oh yeah, cumulatively, yeah. I've hit a million, yeah. Um, and I know I can do it in a year, but um, I don't think I want like a 30 million pound brand, it's just something like a headache.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

It does, and a big team is too much, too much aggro, too much aggro, and I can have my skin team.

SPEAKER_02 40:01

Yeah, and I think as you get older your goals do change. Like in a few years' time, I wouldn't have kids, so I need to set up a business where I can walk away so I can look after my kids and it still runs. Yeah, but that's kind of my priority at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 40:12

100%. Yeah. I think it's important to know what the end goal is because then you're at least working towards people.

SPEAKER_02 40:19

I don't know about you, but people keep asking me what's your exit strategy.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

I'm like, when I got first asked, my kids are over my business. When I first got that question, I was like, what's an exit strategy? I don't literally have no idea. I'm just enjoying the moment right now, and I just want to just enjoy what I do every day. Enjoying the journey. Yeah.

What's Been the Hardest Season of Running the Business

SPEAKER_01 40:38

I feel like I know the answer to this question, but what's been the hardest season of running your business?

SPEAKER_02 40:43

Oh, the hardest season. I think it's when I have personal stuff going on in my life. It's so hard to separate the two. Yeah. And it's like that with any job, not just a business. But I think when everything does rely on you, it's the pressure is just too much. And um, you can't just take time off. Yeah. Um, like two years ago, um, I've spoken about it a few times when in manufacture ran off with my money and I had to rebuild the business from I think I made a loss that year, so I had no money, no cash, and I had to literally rebuild it. And at the same time, my mum was diagnosed with cancer. And at the same time, I started having panic attacks, and I had agrophobia, and I couldn't really leave the house, and it was hell. Like, I can't believe I went through that, but some somehow I got through it. Um but it's when personal stuff happens that it just it really affects the business, it really does, and it's really hard.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

Do you have any advice for people listening who are like going through tough times outside of business in how to kind of cope with it?

SPEAKER_02 41:48

I think your health and your mental health always comes first. Yeah. Otherwise, you can't do anything, like you can't even get out of get out of bed if your mental health isn't okay. So the focus is um just getting yourself better. Yeah. And that year that everything happened, yes, I managed to get the business back up to like it was just like 200,000 in revenue, not even a lot. But I was like, I just need to get the business ticking over, and I'm gonna take this whole year to focus on myself and get better. And I did, and I was like, I'm missing out on a whole year of life. And my friend was like, it's one year, in two years' time, you're gonna look back and be so grateful. And she was so right, yeah, 100%. And I know it looks like everyone else is doing these big things around you, but one, you never know what's going on in people's lives, and secondly, you need to make sure that you are functioning because if you're not healthy, it's it's a horrible place to be.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

And what steps did you take personally to kind of get yourself from that place where you were like having panic attacks and couldn't leave the house and to where you are now? Uh you're a confident queen. I mean, I can get the train today. I do. Did you come by train?

SPEAKER_02 42:53

I did, I still get anxious about it. I'm so proud of you, but I did it. Yeah. Um, yeah, the anxiety is still there, but I still do it. Um, the main thing is therapy. You have to find a good therapist. I have been through six different therapists over the years. I'm gonna say it again, but it's like dating. Yeah, yeah, it is like dating. People say it's like dating. You need to find a good therapist. Um, exposure therapy, that helps me doing the things that scare you shitless. Really? Mine was just getting on a train. I couldn't get on a train. It was horrible. Like even I've been on a cheat with you, and I was like, Isabel, can you come with me?

SPEAKER_01 43:26

Like, I don't I still don't get the cheat. I am, I'm not gonna lie to you. Like, un unless I lived in London, they are scary. They're horrible. It's not it's noisy, it's uncomfortable, it's hot, it's cold, it's yeah, like you don't know where you're going, it's confusing. Yeah, I do get it. It's yeah, I completely understand, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:44

And I think the main thing is just being patient with yourself whilst you're getting better. It can be very easy to like beat yourself up. Why are you like this? Why are you doing this? Blah blah blah. But you're when your body shuts down, it's shut shutting down for a reason. It's literally saying to you, you need to slow down. Something's not okay, and you have to listen to your body. Yeah, you can't run yourself to the ground. No.

SPEAKER_01 44:05

We don't get time off. We don't get basically. So that's so important. Um I I'm intrigued to know what your answer to this question will be. What's a challenge you never see talked about online, but you think every founder goes through?

SPEAKER_02 44:19

Ooh. Every founder goes through. I think it's it's gonna sound really like cliche, but I think it is um like the feeling that you're never doing enough or like a lack of self-belief.

SPEAKER_01 44:35

No, but so true. I sat on a panel with Sarah Davies and she said the exact same thing. She was like, I struggle with self-belief, and like I think she probably doesn't anymore, but she was talking about like 30-year-old hair. And it's it's so interesting how you can look at these people like she's a dragon and she struggles with self-belief. Like that's the thing.

SPEAKER_03 44:53

Do we ever believe in ourselves?

SPEAKER_01 44:56

Will we ever get that?

SPEAKER_02 44:57

Yeah, but even like us, like we don't have these multi-million pound businesses, but we've done very well, we've taken the scary steps to build a business, so it's like why wouldn't we believe in ourselves? Because we've we've done the scary thing, literally, but I think we've proven to ourselves we can do it, but I do think with business people and very ambitious people, you always want the next thing, and then you can be like, okay, but can I actually do that? Do I have the belief to like hit the next goal? And um, I think that's that's really challenging. And I think no matter how big of a business person you are, you always have those kind of doubts. Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

And do you think you put your glass ceilings on yourself?

SPEAKER_02 45:36

Do I put glass ceilings on myself? I mean, I like to think no because I have feminist values, but yes, I do. And one of the reasons is is because I'm South Asian and sometimes I feel like that's a disadvantage, which is a really horrible thing to say. Um because um, like I always worry that if a non-South Asian goes to my Instagram page and they see my face posted all over it, they're not gonna shop for my brand, they're gonna be like, oh, this is just an Indian jewelry brand, this isn't for me, and they'll just exit my page. But also things like I am dark skinned, and in my culture that's seen as unattractive. Um so just things like that that I am aware of and I kind of do put glass ceilings on myself, but then when I tell non-Asian people those kind of things, they're like, What? Yeah, like they're like, I can't believe you just said that. So I'm like 100%, it's it's kind of in my head, yeah. But then it's just when I look at the It Girl brands, I don't see any of them run by someone who looks like me. That they are all run by like pretty white girls, yeah, literally, and I'm like, sometimes I'm like, if I was fair like fair skinned, would that be working to my advantage more? Because then people wouldn't know what ethnicity I am.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:49

I have those kind of thoughts, and when I talk to um like even other like black-owned founders, they have the exact same experience, and they're like, Oh, look, but if I post myself on my page, I don't get much engagement. As soon as I post like a white girl, it gets a lot more engagement. It's so frustrating. Insane. It's really hard. Like, even when it comes to choosing models, I have to think carefully. I don't want to always choose a South Asian because I'm South Asian, so my face is all over my feed, so I need to be really careful about choosing which models, which all brands do because we all want to be diverse. So but like that, I feel like there are smaller things that I have

Identity, Being South Asian, and Representation in Business

SPEAKER_02 47:30

to think about. Um otherwise, I would be boxed into this South Asian-owned business, which I don't want to do, and I'm so proud of being South Asian, but when you get boxed into this thing, it's so hard to get out of it.

SPEAKER_01 47:43

So I'm trying to be very careful about how I do things in business, and like you say about um not seeing any it girls that look like you, but like you're you're the it girl. Oh, that's like that's what you are though, and like if you think about all the other like South Asian girl girls who are starting businesses, they'll look up to you and be like, she's like she's the posting girl for us. I hope so. Definitely, I really hope so, definitely, yeah. And along that narrative, have you ever experienced like discrimination online from anyone?

SPEAKER_02 48:15

No, I haven't.

SPEAKER_01 48:16

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 48:17

Luckily, I have not. It's just been in real life, yeah, with like I don't know, like old friends or like worse, whatever, but then you just don't surround yourself with those people. No, yeah. Um, but no, I mean, have you as a woman, have you experienced anything?

SPEAKER_01 48:31

I've been so lucky, same genuinely, but I also genuinely think it comes from a place that you and I are just like nice pure people. Do you know what I mean? Like I I've never I I I would hate to think that I come across online as like not a nice person, and yeah, I it's like you know, for both of us, what you see is what you get. Like we're exactly the same online as we are in real life, and so no, the only um trolling I've ever got is about my weight online. Oh, but like only once or twice. And like back in the day when I was a bit, I was a bit heavier, I was a bit chunkier. No, silly, yeah. I remember there was like a comment by this guy on I was literally my home renovation page with my dad, and I was like, I've been away on holiday, dad's been doing the barn, and then this guy commented on it being like um could have gone to the gym while you're on holiday or something like that. Let me guess he had no profile picture, honestly, or just like some like old, bald, middle-aged man, like you know, and you're just like, okay, but other than that, like nothing, and like I don't I've got thick skin, it doesn't get to me, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:31

I was on TikTok live once, and this one guy did come on and was like, You look like Rishi Sunak's sister.

SPEAKER_03 49:38

You're just saying that because I'm braun. I was like, Are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_01 49:41

It was a funny comment though, so I was like, Is he trying to be like insulting or is it a compliment? I'll take it as a compliment, thank you very much. Yeah. Um okay, is there anything that you've done in business that you were embarrassed to admit at the time? But looking back, you're like, actually, every founder goes through that.

SPEAKER_02 50:05

Oh, that was embarrassed at the time. I don't I don't think so. Because like I said, the cost of success is embarrassment. I think the most embarrassing thing is looking back at the content I used to post. Like it's awful.

SPEAKER_01 50:19

We all start somewhere that's a lot of things.

SPEAKER_02 50:20

That's the thing, you all start somewhere, and that's the kind of content that was in at the time. Exactly. Yeah, it was trending, guys. Exactly. But I don't I don't think I've done anything. I don't hope I haven't done anything very embarrassing. No.

SPEAKER_01 50:33

Have you?

SPEAKER_02 50:34

Probably.

SPEAKER_01 50:35

Oh, but I don't know. Not off the top of my head, it's a good question. I'm sure Paige will have some uh embarrassing moments of me walking through St Albans with my dressing gown.

SPEAKER_02 50:43

Oh, that was really good. That was such a good video.

SPEAKER_01 50:45

Good video, yeah. It was quite embarrassing. It's done well in St. It has done well. So yeah, there you go. Embarrassment gets you views. Oh yeah, there you go. Yeah, I don't know. Probably, but I've just forgotten about it by now. Maybe we just like try and block it out of our memories. Under the rug, that one. It's under the rug.

unknown 51:02

Yeah.

The Manufacturer Who Scammed Her Out of £30K

SPEAKER_01 51:03

I would love to talk to you more about the manufacturer, if you don't mind. I feel like a lot of people here will be sourcing online and through Alibaba and working with Chinese and you know Far East companies. Um, what can you kind of tell us a bit more about what happened?

SPEAKER_02 51:21

As in the incident that happened. Oh. Um, so it was a manufacturer from India. My mum warned me about India. So I'm Indian, so I feel like I can say this. Yeah, absolutely. You have the right. She always we're not discriminating. Yeah, she's like, make sure she's like, don't work with India, they will screw you over. Wow. They were actually the third manufacturer to screw me over, but the other ones were like very small amounts of money. I'm like, ah, whatever. Yeah, this was a this was like 30 grand, is it's all I had at the moment at the time. Um they promised me the world. Um, they actually they flew to the UK, they messaged me being like, Um, are you looking for a manufacturer?

SPEAKER_01 52:03

I feel like I remember you posting this online, like meeting up with them in a nice London hotel.

SPEAKER_02 52:08

Yeah, we met in London, um, and I was desperate for a manufacturer at the time because my recent manufacturer, also from India, screwed me over, and I had no manufacturer, so I was like, crap, I need one. They messaged me, I met them in face-to-face, they showed me physical samples which looked like Monica V quality, and they were like, Yeah, we can do this, we can do that. When I received the jewellery, I was like, What is this? And I thought they had their own factory, they actually found a little random factory in India and just got some random craftsmen making my stuff, and yeah, it was just they it was just so bad. And we signed contracts, so the contract said if anything is faulty, they I get to send it back off charge and they have to replace it. And jury was like broken in half, and they're like, It looks fine. And I was like, Do you need glasses? Like, this is ridiculous. And um, they were like, We're not we're not taking it back, and I just lost a lot of money, like the whole thing was just the way they were scamming was just in some ways it was quite sophisticated. I brought my mum along because she speaks Hindi to build that rapport with them. You that you can't build rapport with people like this, like they were just going around scamming people at a female-owned business in the UK because there were two others they contacted, and their whole ethos was we empower women, and it's such a joke. They've stolen my designs, they're selling them in India.

SPEAKER_01 53:40

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02 53:40

And I flagged up with them, and they sent me a threatening message on WhatsApp, it was so unprofessional. And I was like, this is just not worth my time.

SPEAKER_01 53:48

And there's what can is there anything you can do?

SPEAKER_02 53:51

Like, I know like the law out there is I try getting lawyers involved, um, and we also got the police involved. But the thing with in India is that a lot of people pay off the police and the police just be quiet, yeah, which is what happens, right? Because this manufacturer scammed so many people that they have so much money from these people, they paid off the police to be quiet. They were flying first class to the UK on a literally scammers of money. Oh it was wild. Karma will get them, karma will get them.

SPEAKER_01 54:20

Yeah, that's the thing.

SPEAKER_02 54:20

I'm like, I'm literally like, I'll just leave it to karma. I just want to move on. So don't work with India.

SPEAKER_01 54:25

Um so what advice would you have for people who are sourcing? Do you have a bit more of like a strict protocol now when it comes to finding new suppliers?

How to Source Responsibly: Advice on Alibaba, China & Thailand

SPEAKER_02 54:35

So for jewellery, I think there are different places to manufacture for different products. Jewelry, uh, Thailand is one of the best places for jewellery. So Pandora, Monica V, Mr. Mud, they all get their stuff made in Thailand.

SPEAKER_00 54:49

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 54:49

Um and the quality there's just so good. My Thailand manufacturer is amazing. Um China's very good. One thing I realised with China or my Chinese manufacturer is that they're not good at different textures, right? They're quite limited to what they can do. The quality is amazing. People think if you make stuff in China, it's bad quality because it's cheap, but it's actually they have the latest equipment and the latest tech, so they they're always ahead of everyone, so their quality is so good.

SPEAKER_01 55:20

So, like everything is made in China, even your designer bags, and they're made in China, they're shipped to Italy, and they are finished in Italy.

SPEAKER_02 55:27

Yeah, well, yeah, exactly. And yes, the products in China might be cheaper, but it doesn't mean it's bad quality, it's actually the best quality. Um, so I would look at those two places. China, I would start looking on Alibaba, and I did a TikTok video about how to look for manufacturers in Alibaba. Um, you want to look for manufacturers who have worked for at least three years minimum. You want to make sure that they are had the verified supplier or the trade assurance, always ask for a sample and try when you're just starting, look for a manufacturer who has a very low MOQ, minimum order quantity, because you don't want to tie up your cash and lots of stock. As we know, yeah, like even now when I launch stuff, I always order the minimum amount because you just don't know if something's gonna go well. Um, so I would say those two places are really good places to look at. I know lots of people who have jewellery businesses look in um I think Turkey. Oh, okay. They have good crystals there. Some people go in Sri Lanka. India is good for some, like it is good for some things, but I'm staying away from it. Yeah, yeah. I'm staying away from it.

SPEAKER_01 56:33

We're jaded from that experience. Yes. Um, yeah, I'll say Thailand and China. Interesting. I love that. I think another good tip as well is to like talk to them online on through like Alibaba Messenger. Yeah, how good is their English? How quick are they to respond? They respond, how easy is it for them to do customization? And I think one other thing is when you look on their product catalogue, yeah. Say you're looking for a wooden hairbrush, if all they're selling is hair accessories, hairbrushes, or all they're selling is wooden goods, then that's like a factory. But if they're selling kitchen appliances and hairbrushes and clips and tops, then they're probably a third party who has many different factories that they work with. Yeah. You want to go straight to the factory, not the middleman, because you just pay more money. Yeah. Um, okay, moving on to more about growth, money, and scaling. I feel we've touched on a lot of this as well, but oh, which question do I want to ask you? What surprised you most about scaling a product-based business? Well, it's hard. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:38

I think it comes across so easy. Like, you need to hire, you need to do this. Like, on paper, it's very easy. Doing it is so and letting go of control. That's the hardest myth. I don't know. That is it.

SPEAKER_01 57:51

It's such a standard answer, but oh my god, it's so hard. I know. I even I struggle with it. Like I was saying to um Paige, my assistant, I was like, you know, look, I could let you and Izzy go and do these things, but like I want to be there. And it's like I don't need to be there. I literally don't need to be there. Like, they can go, they can film content, they can do all these things without me. Yeah, I still want to be there. Like, not because I don't trust what they're doing in the slightest, I just want to be there.

SPEAKER_02 58:17

Yeah, I want to be in the content, it's my business. Well, yeah, exactly. I think that's probably the thing I struggle with the most, which is also why I haven't grown as fast as other businesses because I haven't been so willing to let go of that control. So I think next year it's gonna be more about making risks and stepping outside my comfort zone. Yeah, so yeah. What's gonna be the first thing to do that? I'm gonna look for a VA. Yeah, nice. Yeah, but I'm gonna maybe hire a different, like a few VAs, one that can focus on Shopify stuff and one that can focus on admin stuff, rather than finding one that does everything because that's quite hard to find.

SPEAKER_01 58:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:56

So um I think that's what I'm gonna do. Oh, it's excite two new employees.

SPEAKER_01 59:00

Yeah, two new employees. And you can't say employees for this answer because I feel like that's what you're gonna say. But looking back, what do you wish you'd invested in earlier? Other than a team.

SPEAKER_02 59:13

Um merchandising consultant. And can you tell me more about what they do? So she helps me with stock management, stock forecasting. So important. So important. Um, because I actually worked one last year, and she I had a lot of products that were out of stock, and she was like, You have lost this year on a hundred thousand because you've been out of stock of these products. I had no idea. And it was really bad, yes.

SPEAKER_01 59:44

So And is that a case of like you knew you were out of stock and you just didn't order it quick enough? Yeah, I didn't order it quick enough because I had no system in place. Every founder I talk to has the same problem. I wonder if there's a business venture in here where like we can I don't know, what is there? Because I'm the same. I can't order stuff quick enough. No, I just don't do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:03

I know it needs to Shopify, which tell you how many weeks left you have of a product. Yeah. Um, so there are ways around it, but this is what the merchandise consultant helps me with. Fine. She also has created a profit and loss so important for budgeting. She said every month you need to look at this, or even every week.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:20

Um we've done a forecast for next year. So I know what my monthly revenue targets are. Yeah. Um, which is like a really basic thing to do, but I actually, you know what, I didn't do it this year. Yeah. And I know that's one of the reasons I've struggled because I haven't been in the mental space to like do it yet. But I did it last year, yeah. And I saw so much growth in the business.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:40

Um and I feel like even from a psychological perspective, it's like when you know you've set yourself a target of X amount this month, you just even if you're not consciously aware of it, subconsciously you're working towards it. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:54

But it's not even setting the targets, literally writing down all the tasks that are gonna make you achieve that target. That's what's gonna help that, yeah. Um, it helps with like the overwhelm. Um so yeah, that's what the merchandise consultant helps me with. And we also just bounce ideas off each other, which is nice, yeah. So it helps with a bit of strategy as well. Like, this is what you need to work on, you need to hire. Yeah, and it's just when you're doing it yourself, you need someone to like bounce stuff off, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:20

And someone just like sense check things with like does this make sense, or you know, does this look right to you? And someone who just also has a bit more understanding, do you know what I mean? Exactly. We don't know what we're doing. We're just winging it. We're winging it. We know what we've learned, but we don't know what what's to come. So hiring people who know more than you, yeah, exactly it's a strength, it's a superpower. So, in terms of who you are now versus who you were when you started the business in 2017, how different are you as a person, would you say? I'm a lot more resilient.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:55

You have to be in business, you have to have a thick skin. And there are so many times in business where you feel like you're gonna lose it, like you're going to lose your business. Either you run out of cash or manufacturers screw you over, and you have to bounce back because this is your job and you don't have an option, yeah, and it's so hard. So I think I'm definitely more resilient, and I think I'm a bit more firm. Yes, because I think everyone starts business being like just things like I want to price my stuff affordably so everyone can afford it. You can't do that because you're running a business, you need to make an earning from this. And yes, like of course you can be nice in business. I'm not saying you have to be horrible, but you do have to be firm because one thing I realised is that a lot of people will screw you over, whether it's agencies, manufacturers, they will, so you have to be very firm.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:47

Yeah, and I think it's almost like in terms of I remember you talking about your employee that you hired, and you're like, Oh, I just I don't feel bad letting her go. And it's almost like it's a horrible feeling. But then when we talked about it with in the group on the boardroom, and they flipped the narrative and they were like, but you're also doing her a disservice by letting her stay in a role that's clearly not right for her, and I think it's like also like sometimes there's power in making the hard decisions and doing doing the hard things and being firm because the flip side of it is just it's not benefiting anyone.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:20

Well, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:22

I yeah, I do agree with you on that. What's something that you're proud of that you don't talk about enough? Oh, that's a nice question. I'm always proud of you, but what I'm proud of you too. Um, in terms of the business, I think this could be just life life life business.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:42

I'm really proud that I got through my panic attacks. Yeah, I am as well. It was I can't even tell you how bad it was. It was such a dark place. I didn't think I was gonna get out of it. Like I like I was depressed, it was horrible. Yeah. Um and I'm looking, it was two years ago, it's not even that long ago.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:02

I'm looking at you now.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:03

I know. Yeah, I'm s I'm so proud that I worked so hard at it. It was it's just it sounds so silly, but like I had um I bought a calendar, and on the calendar I wrote every day which train I'll be getting to do my exposure therapy. But I'll be getting like the 10 oh nine train to like East Croydon, like Redhill, and I'll do that every day.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:25

And it just sounded so like silly at the time, but I I had to do it every day to to work through it, and I'm just oh it was hell, but I'm just so glad that I worked through it, and that you've proven to yourself that like you can do the hard things, like literally anything that comes up in your way now. You're just like, if I can do that two years ago, I can do anything.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:47

Exactly. Like, I definitely feel stronger because of it. Um, and yeah, I just remind myself like if I got through that, I can I can literally do anything. Like I have my own back.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:56

Yeah, you can only get yourself out of it. So yeah, it's so true.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:00

Yeah, yeah, like uh don't get me wrong, like still I still have panic attacks, like I still can feel them coming, but I'm a lot better at at like managing them and I understand myself more now.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:11

Yeah, and it's I think that's what they say as well in building a business, is it's like more of a journey about self-discovery than it is about anything else, like yeah, okay, I'm selling jewellery or I'm selling skincare, but actually I'm just learning about me. It's so true. It's mad like the tests that you go through as a founder, you would never experience this in any other realm of work.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:35

And I don't know about you, but I feel like I've learned more um owning a business than I did at school. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we all kind of do because school's kind of just like very, you know. But like it's like I've learned 18 years of school stuff in literally five years. Like it's just crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:50

It is, and I really like how now the narrative is changing on education and yeah, obviously, you're okay, stay in school until you're like six. Yeah. But going to university and just like, what a way. Like, obviously, it wasn't a way. I meant the best time. But like, and I got a good degree out of it. And we made good friends. Yeah, exactly. Made friends for life. But like, I just love seeing kids finish school at 18 and just go be entrepreneurs and go follow a dream. Like at 18, I was like, I don't even know what I don't know what I'm doing with my life. I mean, I still don't really know now, but I just think that's one beauty of social media and and founder-led brands. That we can be that inspiration to like younger people who are like at uni or at school, and just to be like, actually, there's more to life than working, yeah, going to do a nine to five. That's what I was taught. Go to school, go to uni, get a nine to five. There was no talk of, oh, you could start a business, you could move to another country, you could be a freelancer, you could be self-employed.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:56

It was that's what the education education system is built for. It is built for the rat race because they don't want you to think outside the box.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:04

No, exactly. Yeah, they want you plugged in. Yeah. They want you, they want you plugged in. What is the future of Rani and Co.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:12

Oh, I don't know. I always kind of struggle with this question. I don't know why. I don't think I can't think like long term, like five years. I feel like I take it a year out of time because every year's like something always big happens every year. Like this year's been a weird year, like the tariffs and some things you can't predict. But what I'd really like is the business. I want to have a team, I want to grow a team, so I can just take more time out and walk away. Amazing. I really want to talk more about the feminist side of it. I want to do more educational pieces and I want to do more charity for this. Yeah, and I want to do more like just like cool marketing, like around feminism. Yes. I don't I don't know what the ideas are, but I'd really like to do that. Um I feel like there could be some really cool concepts you can come up with 100%. And I do want to hit that million pound mark because I I know I can do it. I can see it's right there. I know I can do it, but I just I just need to do it. Yeah. Next year.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:09

Yeah. Year of the horse. I'm here for it. I'm here for it. Exactly. Couldn't come soon at what is one pearl of wisdom that you would want every founder listening to take away?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:22

Oh, one pearl of wisdom. Oh god, there's just so many. So many. You can do a couple if you want. One pearl of wisdom. I think for anyone starting, you are never going to be ready. And I know it's like we hear this all the time, but just just launch the business. I agree. It's never gonna be 100% ready. Yeah. Um just just launch it. Yeah. Um but also I think we talk a lot about business owners that they need to be delusional, which they do, but you also need to be seeing sales. You can't just go in at just being delusional, like you need to be seeing some sort of progress, whether it's social media followers or sales or something, otherwise, you do just stay delusional. Yeah. Um because I think it was Mark Cuban who said this. He was saying you know you have a business when people buy your product. It's literally as simple as that. Yeah. So yeah, that's what I was saying.

Ramona's Business Advice: What She'd Tell Her Younger Self

SPEAKER_02 1:09:26

Or also another one would be constantly adapt to customers' needs, the the changing world, social media, everything. Like, don't just stay in one place because then you're not gonna I love that all.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:38

Yeah, and then finally, a couple of wrap-up questions that I want to ask. These are kind of like quick file,

Quick-Fire Round: Favourite Piece, Founder Traits & Dream Collab

SPEAKER_01 1:09:44

that should be too long. Uh, what's the your fate what's your favourite piece of jewellery you've designed?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:49

Oh god, that's really there's so many.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:51

Just uh just one, please.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:53

I would say I think the one I'm wearing now, goddess Aphrodite, she was the first goddess I designed, and this was like I think four years ago. Yeah, um, she is the goddess of love, including self-love. And when she walks into the room, she literally just lights up the room, yeah, and she's one of the most powerful Greek goddesses. So I really love this piece, it's like a very special piece for me, and we always get influencers choosing this necklace when we gift them. She's so powerful. Um love.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:25

Well, there's so many though. No, just one, just the one. Just the one. Um, what's a founder trait you wish you had more of? Sometimes I wish I was more ballsy. Um I feel I would say the same as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:38

Yeah. Yeah, because we've both been ballsy in so many ways, but I haven't been ballsy when it comes to hiring and just taking bigger risks. Because you know, like again, I love talking about odd news. She did a pop-up very quickly, then she did um the London fashion show, like literally like that. And I'm just like, for me, it's too overwhelming, it would be too much anxiety for me. Yeah, but um, yeah, I kind of wish I was a bit more ballsy.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:04

Yeah, I feel like that it's to run a successful business, you have to be risk-taking, too. And you I feel like it's in the same vein, I can be quite slow to make decisions, and I feel like if I was just a bit quicker to make decisions to do things, yeah, things would move in a different way, but everything for a reason, guys, everything for a reason.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:22

But also, I think when you make these big uh scary decisions, they require sometimes a lot of cash. True, and as I'm getting older, I'm like, I want to move out, I want a mortgage, yeah. And it actually becomes harder being more risky with your money. So, like when you're doing this business, just go all in, especially if you have like no kids, no mortgage or anything, go all in. Yeah, because you don't want to regress it when you're older.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:45

Yeah, I totally agree. And what's tight one hmm, what's a tiny habit that's changed your life recently?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:52

Oh I think because at the moment I'm kind of feel like I'm in the trenches because like going through a breakup and like trying to get through Black Friday. One thing that has helped me so much in the past two weeks is opening up to my friends.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:08

Oh, I love you.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:09

The support I have got has been unreal. Every day I have either been on a phone to a friend or met up with a friend, and they have got me through so much. So I'm very much like I'm a hero, I can do everything myself, I don't need help, it doesn't work. Yeah, being vulnerable has been such a godsend in the past two years. I feel like I've learned I've grown so much just in these past two weeks.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:30

Oh, I'm so proud of you, and it's what do they say a problem shared as a problem halved, exactly, and I couldn't have got it got through it without them. Oh, I'm glad. I'm glad. And one final one what's a dream collaboration?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:42

Oh, I would love to do a collection with Ashley James. Ooh. I think she's on uh I think it's this morning because she always talks about feminist topics and she just brought a feminist book out. Amazing. I think she's so cool, I love so cool and outspoken. That would be the dream. I have been talking to her stylist and she hasn't got back to me yet. She was interested, but then she didn't get back to me.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:07

I was like, oh, it's gonna happen 2026.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:09

I hope so.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:10

I love her.

Outro

SPEAKER_01 1:13:11

Amazing. That wraps it all up. Thank you so much for being on today.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:15

Thank you so much, Isabel. Welcome. It's been so much fun. Yeah, we've had a great chat.

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