Perls of Wisdom
Perls of Wisdom is a podcast about what it really takes to build a business when you are still in the messy middle.
Hosted by founder and creator Isobel Perl, this podcast goes beyond polished success stories and speaks to founders who are still figuring it out. The ones navigating growth, pressure, uncertainty, and the reality behind building something from nothing.
Each episode explores the honest side of entrepreneurship. The risks, the mistakes, the pivots, the moments where things nearly fell apart, and the lessons that came from pushing through anyway.
Expect open conversations about:
• Starting before you feel ready
• Scaling without burning out
• Building a personal brand alongside a business
• The mindset shifts nobody prepares you for
• What growth actually looks like behind the scenes
If you are building a business, thinking about starting one, or trying to get through the stage where things feel hard but exciting at the same time, this podcast is for you.
New episodes every week.
Perls of Wisdom
She Has 700,000 Followers and Still Has No Idea What She's Doing
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What happens when the thing you're building starts growing faster than your confidence?
In this episode of Perls of Wisdom, I sit down with Sophie, founder of Pretty Little Marketer, one of the most recognised marketing communities in the UK.
I've known Sophie since 2020, right at the start of both of our business journeys, so this conversation felt like a full circle moment.
From feeling completely underqualified and battling imposter syndrome, to building a thriving platform that supports marketers, creators and business owners, Sophie shares the reality behind growing a business when you're still figuring things out yourself.
Because from the outside, it's easy to assume that successful founders have all the answers.
The truth is often very different.
We talk about the pressure that comes with visibility, the challenges of building a community, how confidence changes as your business grows, and why success doesn't magically make self-doubt disappear.
Sophie also shares her unconventional path into marketing, what university taught her, the lessons she's learned from building Pretty Little Marketer, and the realities of running a business in an industry that never slows down.
This is a conversation about growth, uncertainty, confidence, and learning to back yourself before you feel ready.
If you've ever felt behind, unqualified, or like everyone else has things figured out except you, this episode is for you.
Topics we cover:
- Building Pretty Little Marketer from the ground up
- Imposter syndrome as a founder
- Community building and audience growth
- Marketing careers and entrepreneurship
- Confidence versus competence
- The realities of running an online business
- Hiring, outsourcing and scaling
- Content creation and social media marketing
- Lessons learned from five years in business
- Advice for aspiring founders and marketers
If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you follow Perls of Wisdom, so you never miss a conversation about what it really takes to build a business.
This podcast is all about the messy middle. The part nobody talks about. The lessons, mistakes, and breakthroughs that happen while you are still figuring it out.
If this episode helped you, I would love it if you could share it with a founder friend or tag me on social media so I can see you are listening.
You can find me here:
Instagram: @itsisobelperl
LinkedIn: Isobel Perl
YouTube: Isobel Perl
Website: perlsinbusiness.com
If there is a founder you would love me to interview, or a topic you want covered, send me a message. I read more than you would think.
And remember:
You do not need to feel ready; you just need to decide to start.
Love Isobel x
Introduction
Rotted, I absolutely hated it. I feel like my imposter syndromes got what? I was underqualified to my core to be doing any and all of those things. And it just all got too much. Welcome to Powells of Wisdom, the podcast where we talk all about the messy middle of starting a business. Today I have on a very exciting guest. Her name is Sophie, and I actually met her at the very start of my business journey back in 2020. She is the founder of an online marketing platform called Pretty Little Marketer, and she is the go-to for all things marketing. So please go give her a follow if you haven't heard of her before. I hope you enjoyed this episode. And as always, let me know in the comments if you have any questions. And please also let me know any other founders you'd like me to have on, as I have a sneaky feeling there's gonna be a season two. Thank you. You know I'm your biggest fan, so it means a lot of things. So I, for anyone listening, I've literally known Sophie since both we both started our businesses in 2020. I used to do, I think it was like small business Saturday or Small Business Sunday, and I'd like DM small business owners that had followed the PLM page, and I remember you sending me your video and had it edited on like a little logo on Canva, and it's probably still in my archive somewhere. We'll have to find it. Yeah, we'll have to find it. Well, thank you so much for being here. So excited.
Sophie's chaotic week (VAT bills & accounting chaos)
Um I want to start off by asking you what's the most chaotic thing that has happened this week. I know it's Monday, so we can also do last week as well. I know we were talking about the government taking all of our money. So I had a VAT bill, VAT bill last week, and then I also transferred a bunch because my I'm a we're a limited company and my tax year yeah, my tax year get this is January 1st to the 31st of December. How satisfying. How did you manage that? Well, my Fast Ever accountant registered us on the 31st of December. Lord knows where they were walking over the holidays. I think it's like September. I'm like this. It does mean though, like this time of year, like my accountant's emailing me, like we have to get everything wrapped up, and there's already loads to do. So it's just been accounting chaos, which I never signed up for. We never do. I just want to make posts on social media and do numbers. I didn't mean for this to happen, but um, yeah, we've done it. It's done now then. Good, okay. Good, yeah, we can forget about that. So the chaos of the week is over.
What is Pretty Little Marketer?
So for anyone who doesn't know PLM, can you give me a quick elevator pick? Of course, PLM is my baby. She was birthed five years ago. It was June 2020. It started as an Instagram page. Now it is an online resource and community for people in and on social media. So primarily marketers, people in social media marketing, but in that audience we have small business owners, business owners, people in other industries, and creators as well. It is my goal to be exactly that a resource to help people in marketing get better jobs, to help creators do a better job, feel more confident. And PLM is comprised of three kind of pillars. Number one is access to Xbox. So we do webinars, guest posts, newsletters, we have a guest community blog. It is community, and that kind of looks like two strands. One, our online community, but two, we now run a private membership of 500 people in social media marketing. And finally, is easy keeping up. So I've got a weekly newsletter, a daily newsletter for our members, and I share content on social media. I have a thousand more plans to do, even more than that, but a resource for people in and on social media would be my elevator. Amazing. I love that. Well, I can't wait to ask you more about the future plans. But take me back to Sophie pre-PLM.
Sophie before PLM: uni, telecoms & lockdown loneliness
So pre-2020, where was she at? What was she doing? Oh, she was just a baby. I was at uni five years ago. And you know how people so I went to uni late. I went, I say late, I went age 21, and it didn't feel late until my first day of university. We were all given lanyards to say like what course you're studying, like you get you into your different rooms, and it had my picture, my name, my course, and in bright red letters along the top of the lanyard it said mature student. Guys, I'm 21, please. So I was 21, I went to university after three years in a core centre. I worked in telecommunications, I rotted, I absolutely hated it. And I went to uni in a bit to like figure things out. Like I just wanna if I if I pick one subject and get a degree, like then I'm set, all is good. So five years ago, I was just a baby. I was in my second year of uni, so I was halfway through. I had spent the first half of the year applying for placement years, so like a midway uni point where you'd walk in industry for a year, and I didn't get a single one that I applied for. I was absolutely heartbroken. And I remember submitting my final assignment of my second year, and what should have been this like exciting moment of oh my goodness, like I've got a year left, and then I can do whatever I want. I just felt dread, like I couldn't believe, like I was oh my goodness, I was 23. Time was escaping me, also it felt. And I just you know, I still had no idea what I wanted to do. Marketing is so big, so vast, and I felt overwhelmed and lonely. It was also, I think we were in a lockdown at that point as well, so I was studying from home alone, and I started an Instagram page at Prit Little Marketer in a bid to do two things. One, figure out some way of making experience for my CV. Maybe I can put this on there. You know, I've posted, I've made a really ugly post in Canva. And then two, hopefully just find other people like me. I had a really wonderful group of friends at uni, but like I couldn't see them. Yeah. So she was a baby, she was afraid. I think she would be proud. Yeah, oh my god, 100% she would be proud. Absolutely. What did your uni friends make of it when you started? Oh, I love that you asked this. So I lived with my boyfriend at the time. We actually moved in together into our fast apartment a week before the fast UK lockdown. Like I I don't know how to cut, I don't know how to clean, I don't know how to look after myself. Now I'm locked in a house with a boy. What am I gonna do? Um so I started PLM on my old crappy laptop. I remember having it open up on my lap and I'd like sit opposite James on the sofa and I'd make sure to tilt it away so like he couldn't see what I was doing on my computer. I was just making posts, guys. I was making posts on Canva for my new Instagram page. It's true. And um I remember even my uni friends I didn't tell
Early reactions to PLM (the Snapchat group chat moment)
for Wow. I say a while, it was probably like a few weeks to a month. So in the grand scheme of things, not a long time. Um and I remember my best friend in the whole world. I say to her all the time that everyone that knows me knows her because I she's in every conversation I have in the best way. Kath. I remember I told her and she followed me and she put it on her Instagram story, and she was like, I'm so proud of my best DNA. Okay, I can go, I can tell people now. And um I had a big friend group at UNA, and then as with most friend groups, we were like split into subgroups. And I remember in the big Snapchat group, obviously Snapchat, in the big Snapchat group chat, someone put in a screenshot of the Instagram page, and I can't remember word for word what they said, but it was something like what like what is this? Why is she doing this? Or uh yeah, I don't know for word. I think it was Medico in a subgroup, you know, the ones that the other people aren't in. Um, and I remember being absolutely heartbroken. So I don't think you saw my face on there for a little while after that, but yeah, the the one the real ones got it,
On being cringe & building confidence
but I think and I think it was Austin, my Lord and Saviour Austin Butler. He did a subway takes interview where they're on the subway in New York, and he was talking about how like being embarrassed or being cringe is an underexplored emotion. Oh, and I I do not think cringe exists, I do not care what anyone thinks of me. Yeah, but I think you really have to go through that to get to this. So I totally agree. The real ones got it, yeah, but you know, it wasn't for everyone. Oh, it's so frustrating though, isn't it? Because it's like the the people that matter to you obviously won't care that you're doing something like that, they'll just support you. Whereas like the ones that have a problem with it are obviously just the people that mean absolutely nothing to you. And it's always a them problem. Like none of this is on on you. I I what you need to know about me, and I'm sure you will discover in today's episode, I'm a bucket of quotes. Every quote I I'm on Pinterest all the time, I suck them all up, and there's a quote that I've harnessed along the way, and it talks about how what other people think of you is none of your business. Yeah, I don't none of my business. Yeah. Okay, and you know what? They asked me to review their CV about a year in, and I said no. As you bloody well said. Absolutely not. So important. I love the um bit about being cringe as well. Yeah, there's a really good quote, and I might butcher this, but it's don't part don't kill the part of you that cringe no, yeah. Don't kill the part of you that's cringe, kill the part of you that cringes. Oh, love. Because like you say, like cringe doesn't exist. If you think it doesn't exist, it doesn't exist. Like, I've not once in my adult life, probably when I was younger, because we're like young and immature, but not once in my adult life have I seen someone try to do something and thought that's so cringe. I was in the middle of the city. I'm like, wow, get it, girl. Yeah, when I was in LA, I mean at LA, like everyone's there like taking their pics, and um, I don't know, you probably have but like the pink wall, the Paul Smith Wall on Melrose Avenue, where like all the influencers take their pictures. We walked down because I I hate having my picture taken, but I just wanted to take a picture of it. And there were like cues of people waiting to get their picture taken, there were people doing TikTok dances, and all I like genuinely all I could think was wow, like I freaking love this. I love how you do not care. And like you're in that moment, you're doing exactly what you want to do, which is exactly how it should be. And I yeah, I I love that. I agree. Who cares? Who cares? Life's too short. My dream was to be that unbothered. I saw a reel the other day of a lady on the treadmill, and honestly, it was just iconic. She must have been in her like 70s, and she's there slow walking, arms in the air, just like slow walking, moving to her music in the corner of the like or of the gym, and like you know, when you're like, Yeah, I aspire to be that level of unbothered that I just don't give a shit about what anyone else around me is thinking. As long as we're doing good and we're not doing anything bad, like who cares? You're not hurting anyone, you're okay. Absolutely
The moment PLM became a real thing
not. So, at what moment from creating social media posts in Canva did you then think, oh, like this could be a thing? It's been a real journey to being a thing. There's been so many iterations of said thing. So PLM was born June 2020, and up until January, so around six months later, it was exactly that. Just the page where I was making my crappy Canva posts on. Come January, I had lost the role. I'd been working in an influencer marketing agency for like the latter part of that year. I'd lost that role. Thank God, I hated it anyway. But you know, in the moment you're like, oh crap, what am I gonna do now? Um, and I still had six months left till I graduated, so like a proper job, like a full-time job was out of the picture. I didn't know how to monetize, I didn't see myself as a creator at that point, and um, so I started freelancing January 2021. Within six months of that
Freelancing with big brands (underqualified and doing it anyway)
decision, so at that time for contacts, we had about 30,000 followers on Instagram and LinkedIn. So I'd started posting on LinkedIn shortly after starting on Instagram. I put on a post within six months. I was running socials for lounge underwear, I was working with Kraft Heinz on their global employer brand strategy, Fraser's Group, Flanors, Sports Direct. I was underqualified to my core to be doing any and all of those things. I remember being on calls with such important people and just being like, I like I make the ugliest graphics anyone's ever seen. I haven't graduated yet. I'm just but like if you never try, you never know, right? And it worked out fine. So I freelanced as a social media manager, social media consultant, social media educator until 2023. So just over two just un around two years ago. And it was at that point PLM had always been a side thing. So Sophie as a brand existed, and that's who freelanced, and PLM existed just as an Instagram page, sharing thoughts, tips, tricks, trend roundups. But I knew I wanted it to be so much more.
Dropping clients & pivoting to PLM full-time
So it was around that time I decided to get rid of all my clients and figure out what like this is a business now. What can it be? I launched our membership, and that's kind of where we're at now. So yeah, there's been many iterations, and I think as you grow and as business evolves, you want different things and you learn from like your past version. And I could never if you told freelancer Sophie like we ditched amazing clients, she would scream, she'd be like, What? But if you ask me now if I ever want to freelance again, hell no. Yeah, I do not want a client in my life ever again. I want to be the client. Yeah. So I think it's important that you kind of go with the emotions and not stick to your expectations too deeply. Yeah. Be flexible. 100%. I think it's very important as a founder to pivot and to know when to pivot. And I think it's like what you said, there's two things I want to actually talk about. But firstly, just you know, you started with an idea, and 2020 Sophie probably had no idea about, you know, maybe one day we'll do memberships. Like that was probably never even a thought. And so I think for anyone listening now, I feel like we were in the sweet spot of social media where there were nothing started when it was super shiny. Whereas I feel like now things start and you're like, wow, that's so super shiny. And they've like Rafi, for example, obviously, you know, bold example because Jess Hunt is an influencer, but Rafi started, and instantly it was just like amazing. It looked great. And it's like when we when I started, it was just like so scrappy, and I think people fail to realize that you know you just have to start and not have it all figured out and actually understand that just go with the emotions, like you say, and just the opportunities will arise when they need to, and it's then a decision that you make at the time, and if you're so rigid in your thought process, you might miss out on those opportunities, so yeah, super important.
The audacity principle: why the answer is only ever no
And then another thing I wanted to ask was not what gave you the confidence, because that's obviously you're incredibly talented at what you do, but when you said that you were very underqualified for those roles, for anyone listening who's like, I couldn't possibly do that because I don't have the experience or I don't know what I'm doing, or what made that version of Sophie think, nope, I've got this. Like, how do you think? Oh my goodness, I would love to know. Like, I always I almost look back and think like the audacity to just like apply for the freelance role. I love it though. Or post. I remember my one of our first ever sponsored posts was with typo. I don't know if you guys know typo that I could um a stationary brand. And I I would never do this now. And I feel like we have so much more clout like as a business now. I remember just DMing them and being like, Can I can you pay me can can we do stuff? Like, hey, hey typo, hey team, like love your stuff. Like, can you send me stuff and I'll post about it? I love it. And they were like, yeah, sure. Yeah. Like, yeah, sure. I oh my goodness, I have no idea. I feel like I could never do it. I'm sure I can. You could do it now. I think I spent I wasted so much time, and I don't regret anything, but I spent three years in a call centre that I hated. I then spent three years in a degree that I really didn't enjoy that I did on a whim. And I I'm 28. Like, I'm not old, but good lord. According to your tell them. I have lived so little of life, but so much has happened, like so much loss, so much heartbreak. And I'm sure like for so many of you guys listening as well, like life just happens to all of us. Like, why not? Like, I don't want to get I don't want to be 80 and have worked a whole life on a job that I've hated, and why not? Yeah, if not you who? Yeah, like why not? Yeah, why not? Fuck it. Yeah. Can I swear? Yeah, of course. Okay, absolutely. And I think also as well, it's like for anyone listening, the answer's only gonna be no. Absolutely. This is what frustrates me sometimes about like some of my friends, and I'm just like, just ask. Like, they're only gonna say no. And as long as you're doing it in a polite way, just ask. And like, you know, the amount of customers that I have who are like, Oh, like your lash all went on sale and I bought it three weeks ago, can I have a refund? It's like, I respect you for asking, but the answer's no, yeah. Like, so I think exactly it's just like confidence is a muscle, and you have to build it. And so the more times you kind of stretch yourself out of that comfort zone, send the DM, like slide into someone's like emails, ask someone for a coffee, and just the uh the answer's only gonna be no, and what makes no difference to your life, don't you mean? So life for me, like it really is what you make it. 100%. I love um Emma Greed's podcast, Rochelle Hume's podcast, Grace Beverly's podcast, all the amazing. Isabel Pearl's podcast. Obviously, I mean I haven't listened yet, but I will not just to this one, to all of them, of course. Every single person they interview made a decision to do something. Like, no one, I think few successful people are there by accident. It's a series of choices. I think that especially like now, when business is like it's big and it's hard, it you're just one choice away from the next one. Yeah, it's so true. And I I feel like something that I never had in corporate was just like the excitement of possibility which you have. Like you say, it's like you're one email away, you're one something away from life changing drastically, and and that is in your control, especially when you own a business as well. It's so in your control, so yeah, no, I
What people get wrong about building community online
love it. Um changing direction slightly. So, as the queen of community building, what do people misunderstand most about building community online? Ooh, many things. So we have an online following of 700,000 across two platforms, which is nuts. Does it get easier? No. Does it get scarier? Yes. I feel like my imposter syndromes got worse, the larger our audience has grown. But the second they press, follow, and like I'm a community teacher, I'm a community builder. When I freelanced with brands back in the day, my USP was like marketing to humans. Like I build community for strategies, and everything we do is community-centric. And so when I share thoughts like this, and I speak on community a lot, I refer to our followers as our followers because that's what they are. I think that we boldly assume that the second someone sees us and follows, okay, well, they're a community member now. You are in our community, and yes, while they have dipped their toe in, like a follower isn't an immediate customer, right? The same way that you would funnel someone to purchase, you need to funnel someone to advocate. So the way I build our community strategies is like exactly that, it's a funnel from follow to fast post, fast interaction, second interaction. Where are you going? What's the journey that you're taking them on? And it has to be really intentional. I like I don't sit here and recommend Rochelle Hume's podcast because I just saw it once one day. I saw it once and I followed, but then I've been nurtured, I've been funnelled, and now I would consider myself an advocate because I represent it and I talk about it. So I think the biggest misconception for me is like a follow is like that's the that's the entry point, that's the open of the door, but community doesn't just happen. Yeah, I know I totally agree. And I think we spoke about this before, where it was from my understanding of what community is, is that it's it's like you were saying, two there's two elements to it, like you following someone and and it respecting what they do as one element, but then the other element is when you're taken out of that, what then happens. And if nothing's happening when I'm removed, if I'm not posting on Instagram and nothing's happening in my community, it's not a community. Absolutely, like pretty little marketer exists so far beyond Sophie. Like we have a Slack community with set with 500 people in and they're all amazing. If I didn't log in for a week, like they're having fun without me. Like I'm the one catching up. I think that Alex Earl is probably a completely overrated, overused, but a brilliant example of exactly this. So I teach communities you said in two strands: connection to you and connection to each other. People love Alex Earl because they see themselves in her, she's relatable, you know, she's just a girl, she adopted her dog, she volunteers. Like there are so many values and things that she does that will identify with different people that you will connect to and then you will advocate for her. Oh my god, I followed this girl, you need to follow her. Oh, I bought this recommendation. But as you said, if you take Alex out of that, well, she can just be replaced by anyone else. You know, there are tons of beautiful women. With big followings on South Shores. But there's conversations that happen around Alex, things that she has contributed to, conversations that she has sparked, which is the connection to each other. What conversations are you starting that people can get involved with? Yeah. I know that you know the Toco swim girls really well. I love them so much. They're amazing. I use them in so many post examples when I write about this. Like you're connected to them as female founders, as mums, as women who wanted to solve a bigger problem in this swimwear community. But you're connected to each other because they have a brilliant broadcast channel, or other people are sharing their reviews and testimonials or their own struggles in comment sections. So there's peer-to-peer community building. Even through skincare, you sharing your last journey or your skincare journey. Well, that's my connection to you. But as soon as I see someone else in the comment section, oh my goodness, well, I really struggled with acne as well. I did this, la la la la la. Well, now I see myself in them, not just you. So as soon as Pro Cosmetics is removed, Isabel isn't in the conversation. Well, I've still got people to chat with. So your network building under your name. So connection to you and connection to each other are the two kind of strands that I build in my strategies. Yeah, amazing. I think more people, more people need to know about it. I agree. More people need to follow Sophie so they can learn about this.
What brands are doing wrong on social media
So moving on from community and just kind of like social media as a whole. What do you see that brands are doing like consistently that they're doing wrong? So many things. So many things. I love social media. Whenever I meet someone, no, my boyfriend got a new big boy London job, Ali this year. And um, I know goji. Woohoo! He works in AI and tech, so he's like a bro these days. He's one of the good ones there. He does a good job. Yeah. And um, whenever he like meets new people and has to describe my job, he's like, I just tell them you do like internet. Like you just do social media. Like you just you just do that. I'm like, that's fine. I love social media, I love the internet. I think the biggest thing, and we had Beth Thomas from she was Deliveroo, then TikTok. She then worked at Michael, who was the head of social media marketing at Ryanair's agency, frankly. That agency closed, and now she's co-founded one with him. And I think they have another co-founder as well. They're absolutely amazing. Her agency's called Slice. Beth Thomas, if you're looking on LinkedIn, she's awesome. We had her do a webinar for us in our membership club last month. And I feel like she sums up my thoughts to this better than I could articulate. But she shared this talk about getting impressions, not making an impression. So she showed us four images from luxury beauty houses, like Prada, Prada Beauty, Gucci Beauty, and say two others that I can't remember. And she got rid of all the branding. There wasn't any branding in the picture, but like she got rid of their ad, like their name, their story, and she was like, tell me what like and she had the names. Like, tell me which brand is which. Oh my goodness, I had no, they all looked, they could have been anyone. Like Prada could have been one, two, three, four, Gucci could have been one, two, three, four. And they were posts that would make impressions, like they would do the rounds, maybe they would go viral. A lot of people would see them because they look good, or they have a certain celebrity in. But I can't sit back and think, like, oh yeah, I loved that campaign that they did, or I loved that post that they did. Even um, there were a few different trend examples that she shared with us that like went viral. Um, she one of the biggest ones from last year was like the demure and mindful trends. Yeah, um, she shared a few brand examples of brands being like, you know, when you do this, it's not very demure, it's not very mindful. And like she bleeped the brand. I couldn't tell you who any of them were. So I think trend chasing, trend jacking, newsjacking, it works, and I think being reactive should be a part of your strategy. I teach a reach or notcher approach. I love this. So some posts reach, they are made to get in front of new people, some posts notcha. It doesn't matter how many likes, views, whatever they get. The goal is to just build relationships. So different posts have different metrics that matter. But when you're chasing only reach or you're doing reach without the meaning, that's that's the tricky part. And I see so you know, when you see loads of brands in comment sections, and you just think, Why are you here? Yeah. What it like this isn't this doesn't look good. This isn't brand building. So yeah, what Beth Thomas said, like, are you making are you getting impressions or are you making an impression that really even with our like PLM LinkedIn content, sometimes I'll just do like a silly one-liner because I know it will perform well. But like if you removed my name, could be anyone, could be anyone. Um so like is there a value that it ties back to? Is there something that you're really bullish on that you talk about all the time? Even like the emojis that you use, do you like own certain emojis? So, like, oh yeah, I know that's you. Yeah. Poppy on threads, they do a good job at this. They always say, like, hey besties, they use certain emojis. So even without the name, I could guess it was them. So yeah, credit to Beth for that one. But I love we see it a lot, and it's hard because algorithms like that, but I think we have to be people first. 100%. And I think as well, something to add to that is when you see brands jumping on trends that are just a bit like icky, and I feel like this again, this is like something that I've seen um Lucy Hitchcock talk about from Partner in Wine. I love Lucy. I love her too. She's also been on the podcast, um, or she's coming on the podcast, depending on what what season we what episode we drop this in. Um, and she said she said a really important thing where it was like really thinking about like does this align with the brand? And like, for example, the recent one that's been doing the trends where it's like official apology statement, and it's a bit uh it's a bit like misleading to a consumer, and I completely understand it. We did one actually for Pearl, but we obviously framed it as like a we're sorry we're shutting down because we are, and so like we kind of jumped on the trend because we were like this actually aligns with where we're at right now, and we have a lot to apologize for, like around our rebrand and how nothing's coming back, and like we're sorry we're not bringing back our products, but I totally agree with that because it's like you know, many brands probably jumped on that trend, similar with the Coldplay um cheating scandal. Cheating scandal, yes, this is so many brands jumped on it, and it's like you're actually just like making a mockery of an affair, and that's not funny, like, unless you are literally like a legal firm, which also that's probably a bit like not on brand, it doesn't align. And so I think another important thing as well, like you say, with the trend trendjacking is like just I think founders need to be or marketers need to be really considerate of you know, does this align with the brand? And like, are we gonna upset anyone by doing this kind of thing? So I think that's also a really important consideration as well. Yeah, good old social media. So we're gonna move
Sophie's messy middle: five years in and still figuring it out
lanes a little bit. I want to talk about your messy middle. Oh, it's been a very messy middle. Yeah, I feel like everyone I've spoken to, do we ever leave the messy middle? Oh my goodness, no. I'm five, we had our fifth birthday party. I'm an only child, so I threw my business a birthday party in the summer. I remember my parents were like, Why are you doing this? I was like, Why not, honey? Why not? Let's celebrate. I invited loads of our community members, loads of like business friends, we had the best time ever. And I remember um my friend Alice like interviewed me in like a little community intimate Q ⁇ A at the start, and then we had like the big party afterwards, and like the question that kept coming up, or like the answer that I kept sharing was like I'm five years in, and I only just feel like I get it. And even now, like I I've been doing this half a decade and I still have no idea. Yeah. And then to speak to so many others afterwards who was like, who were like, Oh, I feel that too. Oh my goodness, good. Yeah, yeah. So I love that we're yeah, we're just floating through. But like when I actually deep it, I'm like, everyone, everyone, no matter what career you're in, whether you're like CEO, C-suite, million billion dollar companies, they're all just living life for the first time. You know what I mean? Like you're all just you're all just experiencing the crap that's been thrown at you for the first time. And like, yeah, of course, you know, when you get to like C-suite level, partner level, like billion dollar company level, you've got a shit ton of experience behind you, but you are still just experiencing whatever life is throwing at you for the first time, depending on what on what it is, and so it's you know, as if we would think five years in we would know what we're doing. I don't think we're ever gonna know or feel like we know what we're doing, and I kind of take comfort in that in the sense of that you're never gonna get to a place of I mean, maybe unless we become nunk monks and um live in Nepal. Like, I don't think we're ever gonna get to a place where we we feel as though we've reached our higher purpose and like everything makes sense. Do you know what I mean? I just feel like that's just life. Life's just gonna throw shit at you and you're just gonna have to deal with it. And like you said earlier, I think there's so much and it's taken me such a while to get to this place, but there's I find a lot of excitement in not knowing. I remember I was on a pod the first ever podcast I did was with a friend of mine called Amelia Sordell. She's um she went to a personal branding agency, she has a book, she is amazing. And um, I remember we got to the end of the podcast. I'd been doing PLL in like two years, like it was all so new, and she was like, Well, what's next? And I was like, Oh, I actually have no idea what's next. Like I don't really have any plans, like I just want to do what I'm doing now, but more. Yeah. And then I was speaking with her team afterwards, and like they'd done quite a few recordings, and we were talking about actually how refreshing it is to not know. Yeah, like honestly, anything could happen, and I'm hoping that anything is good stuff, but even if it's bad stuff, like it's all part of the plot. Like, it's good. There nothing is not figure outable. So I yeah, I love what you said earlier. Like, well, it's exciting, yeah. It is what could happen, exactly anything, and I think that is very much a mindset to have, and a very important mindset to have, because I know people who could think, like, so for example, I mean, I've been single my whole bloody life, and I'm like not desperate for a relationship, but it would be nice, and I think like, oh, how like excited I am to potentially meet someone, and like how you know I don't know who they are yet, but I'm excited that that's a possibility. But other people could be like, Well, how do you know I'm gonna meet someone? Like, you don't know that I'm gonna meet someone and fall in love, and it's like, but it that's the mindset, we're both in the same position, we're both single. Let's just flip the mindset and be excited for it. The way you think is the way you live, like everything you see absolutely lives in your head.
Type 1 diabetes diagnosis & the mindset shift it forced
Yeah. I am I was diagnosed with a lifelong autoimmune disease last summer, and oh my goodness, I was absolutely heartbroken. I felt like life was gonna suck forever. I remember I I was in therapy earlier this year, and I'd like to describe like I'll be out for the day with my boyfriend and my friends, and at any moment I felt happy, I'd like immediately slap and snap and be like, Well, I can't be happy because of this. And that has been like a journey in its own right, but I was in New York earlier this year with Adobe, they'd flown me out, they'd it was all on their card. New York's my favourite place in the whole world, and I was on I had a f a free day before like all the stuff started. So I had like my dream day in New York, got a ferry to um Dumbo, Brooklyn, and I remember I was sat on this ferry just balling my eyes out like absolutely crying. I just couldn't believe how grateful I was that like I could have lost my life. All of these things could have happened, but like I'm still here. I get to do this, and truly, since that moment, I I do not think there's anything life can throw my way that when I would not find gratitude in. Like, there is so much to be thankful for, even in the deepest shit. So, yeah, how you think is how you live. Like it builds everything, doesn't it? It does, and like you say, like at that moment of that diagnosis, it's like, well, how could I possibly live my life? But then you learn to just adapt, and you forget that like humans are so adaptable. Like, we were locked down for two years, and we all adapted to it, like not in the best way, but it just became new normal, and so I think it's like again, like you say, it's just the way you look at it, and what I also think is important is giving your time to like grieve or be upset or or whatever the emotion is, and to actually like go through that emotion and then but like make sure you snap yourself out of it because you know, like, yeah, it's an incredibly tough thing to happen, but you can't then spend the rest of your life because you can't change it, and like it's like with business and everything, like with my rebrand, for example, I can't change it, it's happened, it's happening, so I can either like kick and scream all I want or just you know, fine, suck it up, make the best of the best situation. Exactly, and I'm proud
The hardest chapter: freelance burnout & walking away
of you. Well, I was gonna ask what's been the hardest chapter of build building PLM? So I don't know if that's got anything to do with last year. I would say that's the second, hardest, actually. So, context for guys listening. I was sick for six to seven months last year, in that I lost 15 kilograms. And I for anyone who's listening, not watching, there is nothing too safely as is. I I remember I was eating so much. So I was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes last summer, which means that my body, in a nutshell, my body attacked my pancreas, my insulin-producing cells, so my body can no longer regulate my blood sugar levels on its own. Over 40 things impact my blood sugar, including what I eat, which is like the primary source of like how you manage type 1 diabetes. And um, so my blood sugar levels, without me knowing, were like climbing through through these months where I was sick because the insulin in my body was it was producing less and less as my body was attacking it. As this happens, you begin losing weight because your body's just eating whatever it can, because it can't take the sugar from your where it needs to go. Um, I was hungry all the time. I thought I'd hit the jackpot. I was eating everything I could see. I was losing dress sizes. I was like, honey, like I need new jeans, I've got honey wardrobe. Um, and then eventually I went to the doctors. I was like, really not feeling great. And they were like, oh honey, like you need to go to hospital right now. So I was sick for six, seven months and it was really scary. Like I knew I needed to speak with someone, but like you almost put it off. Yeah. Like that's not fun unknown. I don't want to know what's wrong. So if I just don't know, it's not happening. Um and then the following six months of last year was like dealing with that. Like my whole life changed. It is incurable, it will never be the same again. I die hard love my business. Like, I live for my business. I would walk on it 24 hours a day if nothing else existed. If I didn't need to eat or sleep, fine, put me on my laptop, put me at my desk. Just plug me in. Yeah, charge me up. Like it's fulfilling. I love I love what I do. And um, I found it really hard to balance life. Like life needed me, but I wanted my business. So I found that really challenging. I think in a way, like it almost, you know, when like just crap's happening, you need something to throw yourself into. I think that was helpful in a sense. But 2024, good lord, I remember when it ended. I was like, Think fuck for that. Get me out of here. I am over this. So that sucked in many ways. But actually, not the like hardest moment. It was 2022, I think, or early 2023. I'd been freelancing at that point for two-ish years. And now I freelanced, I started by accident. Like it was great, but it didn't happen because I wanted it to. I never had that figure-outing moment that I was longing for of like, well, where do I belong? Which part of marketing go out do I go into? What do I love? I lost my job. I started freelancing because I had this amazing platform and audience, and just kind of followed where it took me. I'd signed like six or seven clients over one summer. Good lord, why did I do it? And it it just all got too much. And I think that was like a real mindset moment of like not how do I figure this out? Like, logically, I just need to do XYZ. I just felt like it's me. Like I couldn't do it, I'm not good enough. Like the reason this is sucking and it's hard is because of me. Wow. And um, I applied for a job, a full-time job, I got it. I emailed my clients to start getting rid of them a day before I took the job. Like, I was my due my start date, I emailed them when I was, and I'm really sorry actually. Like, I I can't actually take this job, but I'm so sorry. Um and it all worked out absolutely fine. Yeah. But I remember in that moment just thinking, like, why can everyone else do it? But I can't. Obviously, now I know so many more entrepreneurs and freelancers, and they can't do it either. Yeah. You know, none of us can. Yeah. We're it's Instagram's not real. But yeah, despite all the hardship of last year, I think it feels really lonely in those moments, doesn't it? Like, well, their business is doing really well. Like, I'm just doing something wrong. And um, yeah, that was really hard. I made a mess of it all. But what did
What she learned: head thinking vs. heart thinking
you learn? What did you learn from it? I'm a very emotional decision maker. Um, I yeah, I definitely lead with my heart and not my head. Since diagnosis and like managing a illness or disease like diabetes now, it can be really hard, especially in that I not to get emotional. If I make a mess of a meal, my blood sugar goes wrong or it impacts my day. Like, oh, why did I do that? But actually, like the the rules of my illness are if my blood sugar goes low, I need sugar, I need carbs. If it goes high, I need insulin. And even looking back at that 2022, 2023 moment, okay, like my heart is this is all a mess. I've signed too many clients, what have I done wrong? Like, head, we've got too many clients, we need to offboard some. We're feeling overwhelmed, we need to speak to someone, we need to structure our weeks better, we need a business coach. Emotion aside, like really bluntly, what needs to happen right now to solve this? And can it happen? Can I make it happen? And then, like you said, feel it later. You know, I'll have a week to cry about getting rid of the clients that I really wanted, but right now, this doesn't work. So, what do I need to do to solve it? I think that's been like a twofold lesson from that job switching and then diagnosis last year. I've become a much better head thinker. I think balance is important, you know, feel things. I I still lead with my heart, I cry over everything. But like, get it on paper. Ask a friend, someone that's not in the moment with you, what do I need to do to solve this? One, two, three. Well, where can I start? This easy. Not there's nothing that cannot be figured out. Yeah. You just need to get out of it. Yeah, I love that. Honestly, I feel like my favourite quote is just like everything is figure outable. It really is. Yeah. But when you're so up in your head, yeah. And you've got to say, and I don't know how I'm a very doesn't write anything down, keeps it all in my brain. Like, just I I just know what needs to be done, yeah when it needs to be done. Could not be me. My old business coach was like, or mindset coach was like, your brain works like a conveyor belt. Like something frees up and then the other thing slots in. Once that's done, it frees up, the next thing slots in, and I'm like, Yeah, I just it's just all up here. Yeah, but in moments like that, I'm like, right, I need to just write down what needs to happen, when does it need to happen? Like you say, it's just like it feels overwhelming because you've put no plan behind it. Do you know what I mean? Absolutely. Yeah, I love it, I love it so much,
The mistake she'd never make again (the course she hated)
and so kind of following on from that, I don't know whether we'll have you'll have a different example to this, but what's one mistake that you've made that's actually shaped how you run the business today? I think doing things because I think I should rather than I want to. Yeah. I remember I was freelancing, so I was working as a social media manager. I liked the doing, but I definitely love teaching more. So I kind of started offering consulting. Yeah. So brands would book like a day with me or sessions, and we'd kind of lay out their strategy and be like, okay, this is wrong, this is wrong, here's how to fix it, and then we'd check in. Like I'd walk them through it, but I wouldn't do it. So I was like doing and teaching. And I remember at the time I had a bunch of freelance friends, and a few of them were like coaching, or they were selling digital products, and I think it was late 2023, it definitely wasn't last year, so it must have been 2023. I launched my first course called The Freelance Files, and now it sold really well, aren't really well, had amazing feedback, but absolutely hated it. I hated every part of writing it, filming it. I hated selling it, I hated talking about it because I didn't want to do it. I I would much rather, I think because I'm so community first, I think that self paced courses are brilliant. It just didn't align with me and my business pillars. So I I didn't do it for the sake of it. It was full of value, it was genuinely a really great product, but I did it because they were doing it. Yeah. I if I like I will never do that again. Maybe never say never, but I wouldn't want. To do it again. Yeah. We're actually launching something at PLM called cohorts next year. So I really love how a course gets someone from A to B. Yeah. You have a problem, I'm gonna solve it for you. But I hate the self-paced nature of courses. So we're launching cohorts, but it'll be like group courses. Nice paced, six weeks, eight weeks. We have Slack, we have this, we have that. Like I want to get people from A to B together. There is so much value in peer learning. So yeah, I think doing it, doing it because they did it, or like, you know, I've got a hundred thousand followers now. Oh, I need a course. Oh, I need to do this. You don't yeah, I love that. I feel like again, it's that like head heart piece. Yeah, sometimes listening with the head is important, but sometimes listening to your heart is also equally as important. Yeah, it's tough, it's tough not to get consumed by what everyone else, especially on social media, what everyone else is doing, and like even this year, it's wild. There's like big brands that I've looked up to for years, and obviously I still look up to the founders, but they've like gone into liquidation, and I'm like, oh my god, they've got hundreds of thousands of followers online, and it it looks like they're doing loads of orders, and but actually it's it you never know what's actually going on behind the scenes, and you never really know what's happening. So I think so much of it is just again like does it align with you, what you want, yeah, where you want to go? And sometimes you have to just try something to know that it's not the right thing. I the when I started PLM back in 2020, I remember looking at marketing pages that already existed, and I would make notes of what they did so that I could do the exact opposite. So I don't know why in that moment, again, uh 20 it was around the time that I'd like, oh god, get rid of all this. I'm gonna have a job. Obviously, I have a job, but like a full-time job, an industry job. Um I call it a proper job, but like we have proper jobs, but like I feel like that is a proper job. Um you know, I was scrambling a little bit, I didn't know what PLM was anymore. Um but and and now even now with the launch of cohorts and the way we run our membership, like well what do they do? Because I don't want to I want to do the exact opposite. Yeah, interesting. I there's a another another Pinterest quote coming for I could start a radio station full of them. I love them though. I love them. You will never stand out doing the same as everyone else. Oh, it's so true. Why do we think any different? So and I think there are times where I mean nothing's completely unique, is it? Yeah. People have done courses before, people run marketing communities, but you don't just because they're doing it, you don't need to. Yeah. You're on your own journey. Exactly. Yeah. Do you do what's true to you.
Navigating the pressure of being a "marketing expert"
Obsessed. So as a marketing expert, and you are. How do you navigate the pressure of being um described as a marketing expert whilst you're also still figuring things out and you know learning new platforms when they launch and things like that? How do you deal with that sort of pressure? I think one, like we've said, mindset and self-talk. I know that I'm good at what I'm good at. I'm not good at what I'm not good at, and that is absolutely fine. I e even early this year, to be honest, I feel like my business, PLM, is in a really like happy place. I know what it is, but I've been doing a lot of work this year, and my goal next year is to really figure out my creator brand. I really hate the term personal brand. I think we are so much more than that. Like, I consider myself to be a creator more than I do a founder, more than I do a personal brand. And I remember earlier this year thinking, like, well, I can do community, but like, well, they're really good at video stuff, and oh well, you know, they've worked for Meta, YouTube, like they have like a portfolio career. Well, I don't have that, so I can't talk about what they talk about. We get so sucked into again, like what everyone else is doing that we forget to think about like where we are. So for me, like really grounding myself in what I am good at. Again, I'm a heart thinker, not a head thinker. So my way of combating that is like physical evidence. It it's so easy for me to like in my taxi, in my Uber home, like I could sit and I could list a hundred things that I wish I did this week that I haven't, and I could wallow in it, or I could find you 50 LinkedIn profiles, and like I wish I was more like them, but I'm not. Like, what's my physical evidence? I have done this, I have achieved this. This person complimented me and recognized this. Like, what's your hard physical evidence that you can do the things that you're good at? Is that what you want to be good at? Cool, we'll follow that. So, yeah, it can be really challenging. Even um, I spoke at the Excel two weeks back, I think it was, and I talked my my talk was called LinkedIn Is Cool Now. I love LinkedIn, I do a lot on that, and um my pitch essentially I just stood up there and talked about all the reasons why I'm not qualified to do what I do, but how my creator brand and being visible saved me anyway. Yeah, and I remember even writing that, like it almost felt like a skit, like I was just being silly listing all the things I'm not good at because I know I am. Like I I just know I'm good at it, but I think like you said earlier, like it is a muscle, yeah. Like that self-talk is a muscle, confidence is a muscle, but if that's something you struggle with, yeah, evidence. What's your evidence? What have you done? So yeah, get it on paper. I love that, yeah. So important. Um,
What she'd do differently if starting PLM today
if you were to start PLM again from scratch today, what would you do differently? Probably launch with a strategy. Oh, I love that. Oh I um Who knew what a strategy was back in 2020? Well, there is that. Like, to be honest, I had absolutely no idea. But I another quote coming your way, boys and girls. A dream without a wish No. A dream without a plan. A dream without a plan is just a wish. There we have it. A dream without a plan is just a wish. And I, especially for the fast few years and even now, like I fumbled my way through things and it worked. Well, you know how we were saying earlier, there's like a naive confidence to just going for it. Just do it, don't wait for it to be perfect. The way I strategize in terms of marketing strategy and business strategy is walking backwards, where do I want to be? If by the end of 2026 I want to launch a podcast with a sponsor that has, you know, two seasons, logically backwards, what do I need to do to make that happen? So I think when we talk about strategy, like it feels like something really big and complicated, like this really big walkbook. Well, actually, if I just wanted to eat healthier, I don't wake up and eat healthier. I would walk backwards. Okay, I want three fruits and veges a week because we're gonna start low and hope that we achieve it. So cool, I'm gonna look up what's best for my chosen diet, the things that I like, and I'm gonna add it to my food shop, and then I'm gonna do two meals a week, including those. That's a strategy. That is all it needs to be. And I, again, the place I was in, I don't think strategy would have been needed or worked. But knowing what I know now, if I was ever to start another business or anything new, even looking ahead to next year for my creator brand, my personal brand, there I want to speak in countries and stages all over the world. I want my book proposal to be signed off somewhere. I want all of these things to happen. They're not just gonna happen. Again, the most successful people are the people that make things happen. So, would it have worked five years ago? No. I had no idea what I was doing. But if I was to start all over again, if none of this had have happened, what's the plan? Yeah. Brief, loose. Three vegetables a week, two meals, add it to my food shop. Done. That is a strategy. Yeah. So what do you need to do to make it happen? I love it. I feel like what did everyone else say? Nothing. Oh. Yeah. They would change nothing. Oh my goodness. Which to be fair, I feel like very good answer to have a plan and a strategy because I started I start everything with no even this podcast. Yeah. We'd have started with no plan or no strategy. I mean there's a loose plan, but um, yeah, nothing. I feel like and my answer as well, to be fair, if I were to start Pearl again from scratch, I wouldn't depends on the way that you look at it. I wouldn't change anything because I know everything happened for a reason in that sense. But I guess it's more like if I were to start Pearl again today from scratch, what would I do? Yeah, a lot of things differently. I would do a lot of things differently. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, isn't it? It is, and I feel like as well, like I don't know whether it was you and I have spoken about this before, where uh 2020 me had no idea what marketing was. Yeah, but it was like this thing, and I had no idea what it was because I came from a school where it was like science and you know, do your core subjects and go to university and study a core subject, and so that's what you do, and I feel like in 2025, there's just so much more information out there about you know social media strategies, like having a content plan, and I just hope that people now are a lot more clued up in terms of okay, I want to start a social media page or I want to start a business, how do I do that? And rather than starting where we started in 2020, where we were just like, we don't know what we're doing, we're gonna fumble around until we figure it out. There is a lot more out there now, you know. People can follow the likes of you or me or other founders and see how they've done it and take inspiration. Whereas I feel like when we started, there wasn't really much like that. Oh, but I had no idea. And I was thinking the other day as well, like, when did we stop learning new things? I um I I wouldn't say I'm bad at makeup, but I would love to enhance my skills. Like I just walk into Selfridges or Space NK and I'm like, I don't know what any of this stuff does. Like it looks fun, and like I love how people do it on TikTok and how they look, but like I can never do that. Like I could book a class. Yeah. I can spend an evening. I have a lot of spare time, guys. Like I could spend my evening watching a tutorial or um I also I'm 28, but I really want to get swimming lessons. I went to Bali in September and um I can swim, but I'm not a strong swimmer, like I was not confident at all. And one of the other girls, because we did like a few, we did like snorkeling, we did surfing, we did like quite a lot of watering. And one of the girls was she at a similar age to me, she was like, Oh yeah, like I was actually a bit nervous, so I just got swimming lessons. I was like, I forget that with adult money and adult time, like if I want to learn how to crochet or build furniture or walk a camera, you can just learn. Yeah, like the internet is so fast. So I yeah, I it's funny you say that I was thinking the other day about all the things. Like, I just want to make all time for learning things. Yes. Why not? Why not? And and learning things outside of business, yes, because obviously every day we're constantly learning. I think it's nice to be able to actually be like, I'm gonna do this not because of my business. Because I think sometimes it's so easy to be like, Well, I'm gonna learn how to do XYZ because that's gonna help me with the brand. And it's like, no, actually, let's learn how to crochet or let's learn how to cook a new dish, or do you know what I mean? Like, just actually do stuff for us, not because it's gonna help with what it is we're building. I have a friend who we met actually on our Bali trip, um, and she works in marketing, and um, she's like in-house full-time, but she's learning outside of work how to be a Pilates instructor, and like she's getting like her certification, and she was I'm not even sure if I want to teach it. And like, I definitely don't want to quit my job to pursue it as a career, but like I was just interested and wanted to learn more about it, so I can do it at home, or like we can hang out as a group and like I can do a little class for us all. I absolutely was like, what do you mean you do stuff outside of work? Like, wow. I feel like because we're so deep in the depths of just work, and obviously we enjoy it as well, and I think that's a big part of it is that it's such an enjoyment that it doesn't almost feel like work. That like for me, sometimes it gets to the weekend, and I've had such a busy, fulfilling week at work. I'm like, I couldn't think of anything worse than leaving the house this weekend. Like, I'm staying in Friday, Saturday, Sunday. I'm very happy to like it's just wild because obviously some people in a nine to five are like, I can't think of anything worse than like not being out because like I've spent all week at work and it's been boring and I want to get out and about. I think it's just yeah, how fortunate we are to be in this
Future plans for PLM & the creator brand
position. So we've spoken a lot about the future plans for PLM. Can you tell me about them? I like I briefly know, like I this year has been the first year that we actually mapped out. So this time last year, we kind of put dates in for launches. Oh, I love that. And I've done the same just two weeks back actually for 2026. Good lord, 2010, that's a big number. Big number. You know, I vividly remember celebrating with my friends and family when I was a kid. I remember 2020. 2029, 2020 into 2010. Wow, feels like yesterday. Feels like yesterday. Um, but yeah, last year was the first year we actually mapped everything out, so I've done the same this year for next year. But like honestly, that's as far as I can think ahead. And I think being a service-based business, that's probably much easier than for those of you guys with product-based businesses. Obviously, there's so many more moving parts, but I'm thinking one year ahead. Yeah, my goal truly is just to you like I want PLM to be industry go to. Like, I want lecturers to recommend me with publications that have been around for years, and like that's my I want like a real credible source that people love and want to like they want to read it, they want to be there. Um, so we're launching things like cohorts, which are community courses. Um, I'm actually running our first ever influencer campaign in January. So I am doing a community campaign in January for our membership doors open, picking five of our members to pay to do a post with a prop about the membership as the doors are open. Um so like just trying new things and but that's it, like strategy and the plan. How can I be a better recognised industry resource? Walking backwards, well, what do I need to do to make that happen? Like that's all it needs to be. Like I don't need to map out, I don't need to have every single digital product that I'm creating next year done right now. I just need a plan. So yeah, I've got to this time next year, that's as far ahead as I'm thinking. And um, yeah, more credibility, more authority. And then backwards, what do I need to do to make that happen? So I love that. Really not that in I mean it is interesting, but in the grand scheme of things, like more of what we're doing, but better. And I think that's good enough. Yeah, I think that is, I think that's perfect. And when you say we, who who's doing that? Nah,
Making her first hire (and why she hired up)
so you know what? I've been a team of one until two months ago. Oh, tell me more. But even until that point, PLM for me has always been we. Yeah. Like I've always described it as we. Um, because it we're in it together. Um, but I made my first hire two months ago. It is a freelance role, so when I say hire, like I don't have anyone on my payroll. I don't understand that anyway. Me either. But to invite someone in to be like a part of what we're building, that's what makes it a team for me. So I now have Louisa, who is my operations manager. I love. So hiring for me was really tricky because one only child, two like total control freak. Like, I know how to do things, I'm not the best at how to do them, but I know how I want them done. Yeah. And that's good enough for me. And also trusting someone like I worked with a VA earlier this year, and she was amazing, but I found it really hard to remember all the things I had to tell her to do. So I knew that I didn't need that capacity again. I know that I don't need anyone to market. Like, I I can that's the one part of what I do that I love. Um, I work with Alice as my business coach. Right. So like I know like forward thinking and planning, like, I don't need someone to do business. I just need someone to make ideas happen. And so me and Alice, we kind of walked on like I read through different job descriptions, like on LinkedIn, I spoke with loads of my entrepreneur friends, like who's on your team, and I landed on operations manager. So Louisa takes my crazy ideas that are always last minute and absolutely nuts, does everything in the middle to make it happen, and then Sophie will create, market, communize, community it. Um, so things like our membership, our in-person events, online events, um like email workflows, things like that. All of the things that I hated doing that took me a really long time. What was really important hiring Louisa is she has about 10 years more experience than I do. I really wanted to hire up. I didn't want to, again, with my VA experience, I found it really hard to remember everything I had to do to tell them to do to then help me do it. Yeah. I needed someone who could take and do. Like they just knew. They knew what to do. Um, so she's got 10 years on me in marketing and events. Amazing. Um, she's a mommy. She got two little I think she has little girls, two little girlies. Um, and I feel like she mums me sometimes, but I absolutely need that. Like when I'm panicking, she's like, honey, like it's okay. What do we need to do? Like, thank you, mommy. Thanks, Louisa. Um, so yeah, hiring up. I didn't want to be a stop along the way for someone. I think that's important in like an intern role or a more junior role, but I I really I I knew what I needed in the person, and then like almost the job description and task list came second. So yeah, it took me five years to get here, but it was the right time. Yeah. Again, like these things don't need to be rushed. No, exactly. I mean, you know, you know, but yeah, she is the best. Oh, I love her. She's amazing. Any plans for any further employees? I don't think so. I the things that take me the longest right now are like content creation. So I outsource our video editing. Nice. Any reel you see of mine looks amazing, and that's because I don't do it. That's because someone else does it. I'm obsessed. Mia from Floofy South Shores. Recommendation from me. Her and her team are amazing, really, really good. Um, all of our carousels I still create. I have been toying with the idea of outsourcing graphic design because that like one carousel takes me a day. It will take me a whole day. But for now, I have the time for that. But in terms of like strategy production operations, I think I'm happy. But again, like we said, it when you know, you know. And I think it's just evaluating when you get to the end of like your capacity, what don't you want to do? I could easily have handed off all of the marketing for PLM and just done the operations, but I don't I like I like the former. Yeah, exactly. No, you're right. One of the guests that we had on um got rid of the time-consuming tasks, which was the marketing, but then realised actually I'm really good at this, so I should be doing it. I should be getting rid of everything else that I'm not good at, regardless of like how little time it takes, and actually just do the stuff that I'm good at. So yeah, and I feel like with content it's so personal that handing it off, I don't know. I do get you on that one. That's my worry with a designer. Like, I love that when I write and create my content, like, I I really want it to feel like me. Even our emails, like we we have 30,000 people read our newsletter every single week, but at the end of my email, I've like handwritten like Sophie with a kiss, and like that goes in as an image at the end, and I'll always put like a question based on a topic, like you know, say we talk about threads, like who are you loving on threads? Let me know. And like I replied to every single email. So I think as you scale, it can be really hard. Like, similarly, there are so many businesses that started around the same time as us who like I felt like I knew the founders, I saw them all the time, and like business and strategy changes, but like I don't see them anymore, you know, it's just grid, or it's just product. So I think there and like things like in my email list signing off with Sophie. Sophie from PLM is who it comes from. There are ways to personalise without having to commit to being a face. Yeah, but yeah, that's one thing that I'm apprehensive hunting for a designer. So I think until I'm desperate or I know that it's time, yeah, there's no rush for me. So it's just the two of us. Yeah. Just the two of us. Oh, I'm so happy for you. That's so exciting.
Pearl of wisdom: everything is figureoutable
And what is one pearl of wisdom that you would want every marketer, creator, or founder listening to take away? I think going back to the point that we like that seems to be a common theme, like everything is figure outable. Like, I really wish, and again, like hindsight is a great thing. I really wish that there were so many moments where things went wrong where I felt overwhelmed, where I wish I could have just got it on paper. Yeah. What's happening? What needs to happen to fix it? I um our washing machine, I think it broke last night. I have a really beautiful like alpaca jumper from R Cat. They do amazing, I think they're like £87. There's loads of colours, they're awesome. I have the same one. So comfy, and the sleeves are like really big. And wide. I put it in the wash and I put it on a hand wash because I'm always afraid that I'm gonna ruin these things. Two hours in, oh my god, it's sodding wet and it's not draining. Poor James is in bed, and I'm like pulling this out of the washing machine and like I'm getting water everywhere. I wake up and literally cry, and I'm like, James, my jumper's ruined, it's my favourite jumper. I can never find another one like it. None of them are this soft. And like he just gets up, he's like, What do we need to do to solve this problem? He's over the bath, he's wringing it out, puts it over the dryer, gets the dehumidifier to get the water out, shuts the door, wake up this morning, get his name. It's absolutely fine. Nothing is nothing's not figure outable. Yeah. And I get it. Like, again, in the moment, I'm like, yeah, what do I do? Oh my goodness, everything's going wrong. Breathe. Yeah. Pause. What's the problem? You hate your job. Like, your whole world revolves around that. Well, what do we need to do first? Maybe we need to identify what it is that we like about our job so we can start hunting for our next one. Our friendships aren't working. Okay, cool. What conversations do we need to have? Can we look on, you know, sites like Click, Bumble BFF? Nothing is not. I think there are a few things that maybe aren't figure outable, but nothing's not figure outable. And getting out of it. Yeah. Get out of your head. And again, it's hard in the moment, isn't it? I think we I for me, I need a paddy. Like when I was crying last night, and James just has to be like, snap out of it, honey. Like, get out of it. It's a freaking jumper. I'm like, James is my favourite. I love it so much. Um they also they also still sell them, so you'd be able to find it. But you know what? What if it's not the same? Yeah. That's not figure out of all. Yeah, what if they change the design? No, they do do that. I bought a coat from and other stories two years ago. It's their wrap coat. They bring out new colours every year. Yeah. And I felt it in store this year. It's just not the same. Oh. Shrink. Is it like skimpflation? Yeah. But like prices are going up, but quality's getting worse. So like I really I love my things. Yeah. I'm also really sentimentally attached to everything I own. So I would feel bad for my jumper if I had to replace it. Yeah. But I think that's a me problem. Good to know though, because I have a white one that desperately needs a wash. Yeah. Like I can't put it in the wash because I put my grey one in the wash and I shrunk it. Hand wash and make sure it's cold. So I put it on the hand wash setting and made sure it was on 30. Yeah. And it's worked well for two of my eyes. Oh, okay. Good to know. I mean, someone listening may be more experienced in the clothes washing department. Yeah, if I shrink your stuff. Not my fault. This is not advice.
Quick-fire round: marketing hills, hot takes & Hailey Bieber
And finally, a very quick kind of quick fire wrap-up. So what is one marketing hill that you die on? Followers don't matter the most. I think there are so many other metrics that you should be checking out. Saves, sends, and views are the three things that I look at most. Stunning. I like that you did a post on that recently. They did. I saw. A brand you think is absolutely smashing it right now, and you can't say Pearl Cosmetics. Um, well, second to Pearl Cosmetics, I wouldn't be surprised if some of your guys have already um said this, but salt, Millie and Henry, their new electrolytes brand. I think that they do content really well. They do. Um, and they like electrolytes are so overdone, but they've kind of brought the market to like normal people. Like it doesn't have to be a sport function. So I think they've solved a need in an oversaturated niche in a really, really good way. And their content's really cool. Yeah, I love them. They're great. Because I thought you needed electrolytes just if you were working out, but actually they're good to take every day. I think so. Yeah. They are. Um, what's a founder that you'd love to swap lives with for the day? Oh my god, Hailey Bieber. Does she count? Yeah, she's she's so count. The bank balance, the husband, the baby can be sat for the time. Yeah, yeah. The baby can be with husband. The wardrobe. Yeah, I'll take it. Yeah, fine. I'm here forever. Done. Thanks, Hailey. Thanks, babes. Um, your toxic trait as a marketer. Oh, all of them. Um I would say scheduling things at the last minute. Like, I'm like, oh yeah, I've planned everything for the next year, but like I don't know why I'm posting this week. So yeah. I do it last minute. Um, what's one thing you think people should be doing with their marketing that they're probably not doing? I think organising it. What are your content pillars? What is your goal this month? For example, this month is a real slow month for us. My goal is just to narcha. So I want to create content that really positions PLM as a valuable space. I want to create conversation so that in January, when my goal is to sell, because our membership doors open, people are ready for that, and my content will change. So if pillars feel overwhelming or strategy feels big, just this month, what is the business goal and what do you need to post to get there? Just plan. Love. Yeah. Yeah. The theme of the podcast just plan. I am a I am very type A to my core. I wish I could be. Everything I do is planned. I wish nothing I do is planned. Honestly, when I say we put this podcast together in about a week, and then I had a guest on, and she was like, Why don't you look at sponsorship? And I was like, Yeah, great idea. Even though I've already paid for everything up front, I will do that now. Well, thank you so much. Sophie, I've really enjoyed the No, I've had the best time. You're a brilliant host. And as I said when we started, I'm such a big fan of you, and yeah, how open you are with business really inspires me to do more of that. I hide a lot of the behind the scenes behind the scenes, but yeah, I think seeing what you do makes me want to do a better job. So thank you for everything you do. You're amazing.
